Why wont they change it?

L

Lozz ('',)

After bowling at blacktown for the Invitational cup thing and talking to people about the lanes, it was interesting to know that alot of people for a long time have been trying to get thier league lanes with the same condition as tournament lanes...
When you bowl in league its alright, usually the same condition week in, week out and you get used to it, but once you bowl in tournaments now, after talking to cassies parents, they are now making all youth and junior tournaments with the same condition... plain and simply.... this is bullshit!!
If you work alot and cant get time off for tournaments like other people can, its really hard to bowl in tournaments to try and practice on the lanes. No wonder alot of juniors get to 18 and quit, if its not work, its these hard conditions.... I wasnt the only person that said that either........
I mean, junior lanes arnt 'easy', but once u bowl in youth, its ridiculous...
Alot of juniors that i know want to have a life and get a real job when they leave school. its ok for the younger ones without a job and their mums pay for them and they dont have to get time off, but for jnrs between 15-18 its hard....
Most tournaments are on long weekends and if you work, your not going to give up double-time-and-a-half on the monday to bowl in masters, you make more money working that day than having the chance to get anywhere in the top 16,whatever...
I didnt bowl shield and people were getting up me about it,but bowlings also to have fun, having a job and an income is more important than paying between 500 and 1500 dollars to bowl for a week....
All in all, i think there has to be alot of changes in the junior scene to acomodate the older ones with jobs...
Lozz ('',)
 
Lozz you have got it all wrong.

Not all youth tournaments have to use the same condition anymore, there are specific guidelines that the tournament directors must follow when laying the condition down.

There is a 3:1 policy in place for youth events to be ranked, meaning that the ratio of oil on the middle boards must be a maximum of 3 times as much as there is on the outside boards.

This just creates more of a challenge for the bowlers, almost all league shots are a walled up pattern which is easy to score on, this makes bowlers want to come back each week. If leagues were all 3:1 shots certain people would just give up.

Now from what I could make of your post its the conditions you want changed, correct?

I hope I touched on the subject you were bringing up and helped you out with it.

Later, Macca!
 
People must understand that if they are going in a tournament (I'm looking at the open tournaments rather than anything else), whether it be junior, youth or adult, then that means they are looked at as some of the best bowlers around in that age group. That's how people out of the close bowling circles are going to view the tournament, such as any sponsors, or any of the viewing public.

I don't think there's anything wrong with giving the bowlers a challenging lane condition. Everyone has to bowl on the same lane condition and it requires bowlers to use their brain more than normally. Its all about adjusting to lane conditions that are good, average or adverse, not waiting for a condition that will suit you perfectly.

I even had to bowl on lanes at Southgate when the oiling machine had broken down during the morning, and there was absolutely no oil on the lanes at all. That was clearly a mistake, but its not anything the staff could do about at the time. There's nothing else you can do in adverse conditions than to just put your head down and put your mind to finding the line. Complaining about the condition and getting flustered about it won't get you anywhere, the way I see it.
 
wot she is trying to say is people r sick of working their butt off during the week. Some for very little ie. alot of people 17 - 23 are an apprentice and get paid alot less than a normal wage of that particualar trade.
And then go away on the weekend. use their hard erned cash on petrol accomodation food. And the entry fee which is like $120 +++
And then after paying all this money they get on the lanes and find they have to bowl on cmplete and utter S. H. I. T!
no one asked 4 easy or hard lanes but fair lanes
if those lanes at blacktown were 3:1 then they must hav done it in reverse because there was next to no oil in the center of the lane but there was plenty on the out side.
if the condition was 3:1 and there was plenty of oil on the outside shouldnt there have been even more in the middle???


Trent Cage
 
If you can't hack it, GIVE UP AND LEAVE US ALONE!

Your the one in control of the ball (Not focused at anyone), you should be able to go out there and bowl relitively well on any condition, eg:

I was bowling in a JYC about a month ago the lanes were pretty nice but I didn't start well, I shot a 137, but I said to myself "Ok, calm down you can recover" and to some point I did, I ended up shooting a 197 avg over the six games with a 137, I was only 20 something pins behind 1st if I had shot a 160 in the first game I would have won,

My point is, it doesn't matter what the conditions are like so long as you can find a line and stick to it, and if you can't find a line then you went trying hard enoght, eg:

First game of my five man team last week was a 147, but I changed equipment and ended up shooting 245 & 223 for a 615 series,

My point again is that even thought the conditions are %$#@ you still need to bowl on them and even though they may not be to your liking you will need to change, look at all the good bowlers, there offen good becasue they know when to put that Inferno down and pick up the Boost, you just need to consentrate, think about you shot and make a change (If you need to that is). Experince on different conditions is the key to sucess, you just need to focus, consentrate and never give up.

So before you have ago about you having to waste your money bowling on a crappy lane, you should understand that your incontrol of the ball and that theres always a way to get a strike, all you have to do is look for it and then bowl it over and over until you need to find it again.

So if you bowl bad blame yourself, and not the conditions...
 
Yes i can see both points of view, Lauren that people need practice and michael, the 3:1 ratio

HOWEVER....

Centre proprieters want their league bowlers to come back week in and week out. I know this as i work in a bowl and anyone else who works in a bowl should know this. Based on this, centres will want a high scoring condition to keep their league bowlers happy. For the tournament bowler, this can be a bad thing as easy conditions are not a true reflection. Cara defined it perfectly in the latest AMF Whats The Score mag, where she said that she is all for the 3:1 as shown at SA Cup where scoring was lower than usual but something went wrong at Cannington. IT IS ABOUT TIME CENTRES STARTED TO HELP ALL BOWLERS, NOT JUST LEAGUE BOWLERS. Campagin as a whole to get action, speak to other leagues and find out what they want. If that doesnt happen, do what i do. For me to get over this, i speak to the back end guys and reserve lanes with a specific condition. I have just started to do this and i feel that i get experience over different lane conditions. Some or many may not able to have this but it does help me. I work on a condition for a while then get it changed, different lengths and different volumes of oil.

So, speak to your centre management and the back end crew and see what can be done. if nothing gets done, get A LOT of people to speak up, because if many people do that, they might listen.

I hope that helps Lauren, and btw, i would like to say that at AMF Norwood, we have a great backend Manager in Paul Jameson and some great people in management who do listen when someone has a question or querey

Thanks, Brad
 
You will NEVER EVER EVER get a centre to 'toughen' conditions as you suggest. I am all for a challenge but when you have bowlers complaining that they aren't bowling so well because of the new crappy conditions (all because they won't adjust) you run the risk of losing your business. Its already a struggle to gain and retain bowlers. Sorry Lauren but thats how it is. As BT suggested if you have a great centre willing to help out, get a group together and I'm sure they would be willing to put conditions down to practice on. Do this once a week and call it a league. Have this group/league registered. Watch your skills improve. Its fair to say your average might drop but it wouldn't be such a big deal given the benefits. I do believe that a great percentage of 200 average bowlers are kidding themselves but thats all they want week after week.
Just an idea.
 
lauren i am sorry to say this but i think you have your priorities confused. if people want to bowl and make it to "the top" then those people will put in the time and effort to train so they can succeed. for me, i know that bowling comes first before my part time job, because if i know that i am going to bowl, ill get the time off of work so i can bowl....this may not be as easy for people depending on how hard it is to get the time off of work, but if they want it bad enough those people are going to get the time off no matter what circumstances they are faced with. and you said that the conditions in youth are "ridiculous" i personally am in favour of hard conditions, because then you really know who can bowl and who can't. if a bowling centre lays an easy pattern down with a wall straight up 10 board, it makes a large percentage of bowlers look awesome. but by putting a hard condition, the more skilled bowlers are going to come through because they know what adjustments to make and just because its hard it doesnt mean they are going to give up.

and also to scoreggia, mate at cross road bowl in adelaide south australia we have worked with the manager and the back end crew and we have come up with a 3:1 ratio condition as our LEAGUE PATTERN. and let me tell you it is difficult, challenging but there is a shot for everyone from crankers to strokers, and there has not been one complaint from a league bowler. also, there have been two 300's bowled in the last month on the 3:1 pattern.

as well as this, the cross road elite squad comes down every friday night and we get the back end boys to lay different patterns such as a short pattern 35ft, 36ft and medium pattern of 39ft and a long pattern of 42ft. all with varying amounts of oil from 2:1 ratio, 2.5:1 and a 3:1. the oil ranges from 30units to 60 units of oil. so as you can see we get a wide variety of lane conditions to practice on so we can get used to the 3:1 especially and go away and compete and not be blown away by the conditions.


so im sorry to have to correct you but we have got our centre to "toughen" the conditions. its just a matter of having a very good relationship with the centre manager and the guys in the backend.

cheers

matty k
 
Just one comment
3:1 ratio or not, the SERIOUS side of it is- you are still going to finish the tournament in the position you should have.. So why all the sooky la la's
 
Vote 1 for SLATS!

Just to briefly touch on the blacktown condition topic again:

At Blacktown.... i can tell you right now....no matter what condition was laid down.....Brando and Jarrod were going to run top 2....if it was a "wall" shot, those boys would of averaged 15-20 pins more....and everyone else would of been further behind.
WHY?
They are the best 2 youth bowlers in this country!!!!!
WHY ARE THEY BETTER?
They learn to play on any lane they are given and Experiance on many "tough shots" will help a player adjust to a new condition they havent seen. (not to mention the practice over the years)
These guys dont get to play at many FIQ's just because they can score 230+ averages on a DITCH, but because they can average 200 at FIQ......if you thought BLACKTOWN WAS HARD......GOOD LUCK PLAYING FIQ or through ASIA.

The youth and JNR bowlers that read this thread and dis-agree with tough lanes been 'great' for improving your skills, and think its a waste of money to average 180 and to come 20th but better to average 200 and come 21st....... i have 1 thing to say......
Enjoy reading about "our best" players online while they win your country some shiny medals.

Jason Belmonte
 
Belmo and Slats have hit it right on the nose.
The accurate bowlers and bowlers who can adapt to change should be the ones who benefit and reep the rewards.
 
Nicely said slats - couldnt agree more!!
Yeah the condition may be tough, but like its been said, it shows who the better bowlers are on the day - not the ones that can get lucky and get a 10-15 board area!! If you are serious about the sport and wanna go places, then get used to the 3:1 pattern!!!
Yeah its a tougher condition, but at the end of the day, if you bowl well, or average well on that condition, then you should be satisfied with yourself!!!!

I disagree with Matt-Da-Bratt however. ALOT of youth bowlers (being under 23) work FULL TIME - that means that unlike part timers, or casual workers, we have a limited amount of days, therefore its not as easy as you say to get time off work to bowl tournaments - especially if you work saturday's!! I know that for a fact because I am having that problem myself!

All i can say is that there are ALWAYS gonna be people whinging about the condition - there either 2 easy, 2 hard etc - if you cant handle it, dont bowl! Simple!
 
ok,.... 1st of all, thanks trent for saying exactly want i wanted to get across :)
I didnt write what i said to say that im right, i wrote it to understand whats going on with the tournament conditions and to hear other peoples views and to express my opinion because everyone has talked about this but no one has said about it on totalbowling.
Also, someone said that if you cant adjust your not trying enough, that is the biggest load of bullshit i have ever heard and couldnt be further from the truth...
I know exactly what line I should play on pretty much any condition I bowl on, the fact is, I cant physically do it... I knew I had to bowl over 13 board or plus, and when I did( about twice a game) I struck... believe you me, I tried, i bowled a 120 game and in the same block followed with a 196 or something....
I know that the 3:1 condition is tough, and like froggy said, it shows the better bowlers... but in my point of view there were alot of bowlers who wernt as good as slats or cow or jarrod... and if guys like them want the prize money, then dont they want the not so good bowlers to bowl in it? if they do they are going to want less tougher conditions because its those people that are giving them thier money....
Unless your like frawls and you just bowl for money, then bowling is not more imprtant than a job...
If you work at a bowl you a guaranteed time off but if your full time then i think your job is more important..... My boss is a bitch(most are)and I am a casual so i cant take a sicky and get paid for it, plus if i take too much time off then my hours go down and i wont get as much money....
The accurate bowlers should reep the rewards but they are going to always need the non experienced ones to bowl, otherwise if the conditions are hard then they wont and there will be 30 people in a tournament, not 60....
Also you are going to bowl better if you've got the money, its not that your not trying, its the ones with the rich parents that pay for every new ball that comes out, its money too
And by the way matty, thats pretty much been my whole point, league lanes should have the same variety as tournament lanes... its the one pattern, i wish my centre had a different pattern like 3:1 every week so i could adjust to it... i feel like when i go to a tournament im paying 120 bucks to practice!
Everyone says how good all the top bowlers are cos they can adjust bla bla bla.... im sure alot of people could bowl as good as them if they had 20 balls, one for every condition... they r good, thats why they are sponsored but u gotta admit, if they had 2 strike balls...... and one spare they wouldnt be averaging 230 on a tough condition...

Anyway, you need 20 balls, rich parents alot of time and no job to bowl awsome, thats what i think it comes down to...
Think of a really good bowler that doesnt have atleast one of those......
 
ok,.... 1st of all, thanks trent for saying exactly want i wanted to get across :)
I didnt write what i said to say that im right, i wrote it to understand whats going on with the tournament conditions and to hear other peoples views and to express my opinion because everyone has talked about this but no one has said about it on totalbowling.
Also, someone said that if you cant adjust your not trying enough, that is the biggest load of bullshit i have ever heard and couldnt be further from the truth...
I know exactly what line I should play on pretty much any condition I bowl on, the fact is, I cant physically do it... I knew I had to bowl over 13 board or plus, and when I did( about twice a game) I struck... believe you me, I tried, i bowled a 120 game and in the same block followed with a 196 or something....
I know that the 3:1 condition is tough, and like froggy said, it shows the better bowlers... but in my point of view there were alot of bowlers who wernt as good as slats or cow or jarrod... and if guys like them want the prize money, then dont they want the not so good bowlers to bowl in it? if they do they are going to want less tougher conditions because its those people that are giving them thier money....
Unless your like frawls and you just bowl for money, then bowling is not more imprtant than a job...
If you work at a bowl you a guaranteed time off but if your full time then i think your job is more important..... My boss is a bitch(most are)and I am a casual so i cant take a sicky and get paid for it, plus if i take too much time off then my hours go down and i wont get as much money....
The accurate bowlers should reep the rewards but they are going to always need the non experienced ones to bowl, otherwise if the conditions are hard then they wont and there will be 30 people in a tournament, not 60....
Also you are going to bowl better if you've got the money, its not that your not trying, its the ones with the rich parents that pay for every new ball that comes out, its money too
And by the way matty, thats pretty much been my whole point, league lanes should have the same variety as tournament lanes... its the one pattern, i wish my centre had a different pattern like 3:1 every week so i could adjust to it... i feel like when i go to a tournament im paying 120 bucks to practice!
Everyone says how good all the top bowlers are cos they can adjust bla bla bla.... im sure alot of people could bowl as good as them if they had 20 balls, one for every condition... they r good, thats why they are sponsored but u gotta admit, if they had 2 strike balls...... and one spare they wouldnt be averaging 230 on a tough condition...

Anyway, you need 20 balls, rich parents alot of time and no job to bowl awsome, thats what i think it comes down to...
Think of a really good bowler that doesnt have atleast one of those......
 
hey,

not wanting to sound rude or anything but with bowling, i think practice for everyone - whether they have a job or not - is a make the time because you'll never find the time situation.

and about knowing where to hit but not being able to? remember what michelle said that time? i dont remember exactly, but im pretty sure she said there was no such thing as cant...

and you don't need 20 bowling balls. all you need is 2 or 3, one for dry and one for oily one when you don't like the way the others are feeling - but more you need to know how to use them, what they do and their limits.

and if a centre put down a three:eek:ne pattern every week, it would kind of take away the point of tournaments, which is to see who has the ability to bowl the best on any condition, not only to be able to over come it physically, but mentally. i bet the ones who finished out in front were the ones going hey, i've bowled on worse, rather than this is the worse condition i've ever bowled on.

luv jess


p.s. i didn't mean any of this as a personal attack to anyone
 
WHY WONT THEY CHANGE IT

Hey jus tlike to say im totally on lozz's side here 3:1 would prepare us for tournies if they would let us use the 3:1 during league's :twisted:
 
Had to have a say on this hot topic !! :)

Slats you were short and sweet and i like that :)

belmo - i swear in the next federal election you got my Number 1 vote ..hell mate i will even hand out ya flyers and how to vote cards for ya:)

Anyway back to the topic...

Lozz..i dont mean to sound rude but if u were aiming that attack on the people that are sponsored and that we are lucky and wouldnt be as good if werent that is what i got from your statement) well sorry but i have to disagree.

To start with how do u think ppl get sponsored??... They start from the beginning in Juniors practise hard put in the HARD work hopefully get results.....then i will give it to with a bit of luck they pick up a sponsorship.

To say we only bowl good because we have 20 bowling balls...well i would like to see my little chicken legs and tooth picks for arms carry in 20 balls for a tournment. I mean i know most of the guys take 4-6. I admit we have an advantage maybe of using new equipment but u still have to know when to use what !

As for your statment that if ppl took 2 balls to a tournment then things might be different..i would like this to happen because i guarantee i could still pick about 10 guys that would make the cut of 16 because these guys can repeat shots. These ppl include, Brando, Belmo, MattyO, Micky Z, Slats. Cowland, Townsend and etc

For the 3:1..Trent mentioned it was reverse..i found that this happens..it is not because there is more oil on the edge then the middle..it is because Centre have not had oil on the egde boards for 20 years so when they put a little bit on them it is like Glass.

Also going back to the point Belmo made..are you saying you would prefer to go to a tournment with a easy condition and average 200 but still finished out of the cut ???

I know this was not as short and sweet as SLATS comment but just had to voice my opinon.

Just remember ppl worked hard to get were they get to and it is not always about money. Sometimes ppl sack up and have a go it is the only way to learn.
 
Well said Jez, I couldnt agree more!!!!
I reckon if everyone had to take only 2 or 3 balls to a tournament, you would still have jez, brando, belmo, mickey z, robbie t, slats, cow, bobby, etc - these guys would still be in the top 16 - why? Because they dont give up when the lanes are tough - they put in the hard yards to be able to handle any lanes, and when the lanes ARE tough, the knuckle down and do what they have to do to score on that condition!! Its not the ball that makes the bowler win, its the bowlers ability both physically and mentally!!

This sport will NEVER be 100% fair to all bowlers - thats the way it is - bringing in the 3:1 pattern is making it the fairest its been in a long time. It also gets bowlers prepared for adults, and also any overseas tournament whether it be FIQ or just the tour in Asia - because I can guarantee, if you think 3:1 is tough, dont bother going overseas!
 
I think Froggy summed it all up very well there...
Ive never been overseas, but I really want to and I know that giving up on the patterns here is not the way to go about it, coz nobody, nowhere will change the pattern for just the people who are struggling to bowl on a set condition. I know I have struggled to bowl on a few conditions but Im never going to give up.
 
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