South Pacific centre qualifying fairness

[milkman]

Can AMF guarantee fairness when it comes to lane conditions when trying for a South Pacific centre qualifying spot?

The centre I bowl at, has an extremely large league on a certain night of the week, that expect decent conditions to be laid each week. The averages in that league are somewhat higher than any other league in the centre.

There are people who bowl in my league at this centre, that also bowl in that rather largish league, and there averages are somewhat 15-20 pins higher on that night of the week. So does this mean that some bowlers will have more of an advantage than others?

And what happens if you want to try out of league? There is absolutely no chance in hell I would be trying out for the qualifying spot on the weekend in this centre. Last time I had a bowl on a weekend, the plastic ball was hooking after 30 feet.

I appreciate the efforts that AMF are going to in regards to offering these spots, I just want to ensure that they are made aware of the inconsistancies that some leagues experience at some centres, and a fair, equal chance for all bowlers to participate in this event.

 

[BrenH]

The thing that probably bothers me the most about the whole thing is the Zone Finals.

The concept is perfectly sound and is really the only way I can think of for narrowing down the number of participants to a reasonable number of winners.

However, the fact that each Zone finals are held at one of the centres within the Zone makes it inherently unfair for all of those bowlers who qualify for the Zone final but don't actually bowl a league at that centre.

The zone I bowl in includes Keon Park (who hold the zone final), Highpoint, Sunshine and Northcote.
What I'm saying is that those bowlers who qualify from Keon Park will have a massive advantage over those who come from the other 3 centres.

Perhaps the zone final for each zone should be held at a centre outside of the zone.
Therefore for the zone I bowl in the final could be held at somewhere like Box Hill, Forest Hill, Knox, Chadstone or basically any Victorian AMF centre outside the zone.

This would mean more travel time for bowlers but would probably level the playing field as it would be unlikely that any of the bowlers who qualify for a zone final would bowl a league at the centre.

I agree with Milkman in that its good to see AMF offering this kind of chance to bowlers but I believe that unless the zone final centres are going to lay down something other than the house condition, and honestly how many centres can say that they have considered it?, the current system is inherently unfair to at least 20% of the zone finalists.

 

[Graham]

Point taken guys, keep the comments coming and they will all be considered for the next time this is done (hopefully next year). Remember its the first time for a few years that anything of this size has been attempted, so some things arent going to be perfect first time around.

 

[Luke D]

Perhaps the zone final for each zone should be held at a centre outside of the zone.

This would be great to make the playing field as even as possible, but it would be hard for the smaller states where there aren't that many AMF centres. We only have 4 AMF centres in WA (Cannington, Craigie, Morley and Rockingham) so this idea wouldn't exactly work.

But it is great to see AMF have restarted the SPC qualifying to give everyone a go in bowling in this tournament (not just the people who can afford to make the trip over)

 

[BrenH]

We only have 4 AMF centres in WA (Cannington, Craigie, Morley and Rockingham) so this idea wouldn't exactly work.

Thats fair enough then.
Perhaps for the states that could do it though it would be something to consider for future years.

Perhaps this kind of option would also be workable for other tournaments as well.
Like something for us Vics so that we get a chance to go interstate on someone elses dollar.

Overall though its good to see something in place to get people interested in the Super Six.

 

[Hawka]

Dear Cameron

I assume the league you are referring to is International Doubles on Thursday night at Dandenong. Yes our league average is considerably higher than most others in the centre however perhaps instead of assuming it is the condition that is laid that makes the difference have a look at the calibre of bowlers in the league!!

We have more Australian & Victorian reps in this league than others in the centre so one would assume the average should be higher.

If you are so worried about not being treated equally then give Barbara Carlsson a call I'm sure we could find a position for you in the league and then see if your average does increase by 15-20 pins. I'm sure if you sub on a Thursday night your scores for South Pacific would still Count!!!

Cheryl Bast

 

[androooo]

Perhaps the zone final for each zone should be held at a centre outside of the zone.

Feel free to pay the airfares for Tassie entrants.

With only 2 centres to choose from, unless we go to 1 of the 2 privately owned centres, we don't have much choice in the matter.

 

[OZGAL]

Maybe Tassie could have their zone final in Perth, WA in Adelaide and SA in Tassie!

yeah good idea - NOT! If you don't bowl in the Centre where the zone final will be held how about getting down there for some practice if it means that much to you. :?: :?: :?:

There are some people who just can't see the good in anything huh. This is a fantastic opportunity and all bowlers should take their hat off to AMF for allowing all bowlers to be a part of it.

 

[BrenH]

Obviously if there is only 1 zone in the state then having the zone final in another zone isn't practical, but i thought that went without saying!

If you don't bowl in the Centre where the zone final will be held how about getting down there for some practice if it means that much to you.

That is fine but the bowlers who call that centre home still have a huge advantage.

Perhaps instead of having the zone final outside the zone it could be rotated through every centre in the zone so that over the space of 2,3,4 or 5 years (depending on the size of the zone) every centre has the chance to host a zone final.
This would take several years for some zones but would end up being fair for everyone over the course of the next few years.

 

[The Real Deal]

That is fine but the bowlers who call that centre home still have a huge advantage

So the bowlers who call the host centre of The South Pacific " HOME" , would have an avantage over the whole field?

So do we rotate the Super 6 events through all AMF Centres aswell? :roll:

 

[Crawf]

I think brendan makes a very valid point. It seems to me that the win a spot format is designed for AMF league bowlers who may not be regulars on the Super 6 circuit, but would love the chance to mix it with the big boys in a quality tournament such as the SPC.

So, as such, bowlers competing in the zone finals may not bowl often in other centres. Granted, the best bowlers on the day may adjust to the lanes and rise to the top. However, years of bowling in a certain centre may be advantageous over someone else who has bowled in that centre once or twice in their life. There is something to be said for how comfortable a person 'feels' when bowling in a centre that they regularly bowl in. Unintentionally, there is a chance that the condition, combined with the 'feel' of that centre, could be far more familiar to bowlers from that centre, as opposed to anyone else.

This may not be the case for everyone, however as this concept is geared towards the notion of a 'once in a lifetime opportunity', then it is only fair that all league bowlers, from experienced to less experienced, get their chance.

For regular tournament and Super 6 competitors, there wouldn't be such an issue. For your average league bowler, there may be an issue in areas which have 'dense AMF centre populations.' Could anyone clarify how the qualifying is being carried out in Tasmania or WA?

As graham said, the first year of such a concept is bound to have minor issues. Luckily enough, these can be addressed for the future. I think this issue is more of a 'what if?' scenario, but certainly provides food for thought!

 

[SNEEZY]

What is wrong with having a home centre advantage :?: :?: Maybe AMF should just give out spots to those people that can't hack it and complain that someone that bowled better than them got it because they had a home centre advantage.

What I have read so far in this thread is in my belief beyond a joke. When participating in tournaments whether it be for trying to win a spot for the SPC or for 1st place in a super six tournament, you are going to 90 - 100% of the time have someone that bowls in that centre.

Just because someone may bowl in the centre where the zone final is being held doesn't straight away mean that the person is going to bowl a 200+ average. In my book it doesn't matter whether you bowl in the centre or not. If you are a good enough bowler and use your brains, then you will adjust to the conditions that are given to you on the day and bowl to the best of your ability. After all every bowler that bowls in the zone final has to bowl on the same condition.

Also, if you as a bowler are concerned about someone having a home centre advangtage then why not take a trip to the centre where the zone final will be held and do some practice to familiarise yourself with your suroundings, the lanes, etc. :-s Maybe even ask the centre what condition could be laid on the day and if necessary ask someone at your local centre to lay that condition for you, they might be nice enough to do that for you.

Bowling is a sport where you can have a bad day or a good day it all depends on how you feel on the day, how you adjust on the day, how you may be affected by the weather on the day, etc, etc. :? There are a 10001 variable that may affect you and your bowling and how you may bowl in the tournament or league that you decide to bowl in. Why don't we just go out there on the day and show good sportsmanship and do our best in the zone finals when they are held. For those that have the home centre advantage good luck to you. It is up to you to take advantage of that and do your best. 8)

By having a home centre advantage is in no way unfair to any other bowler. You still have to throw the ball 60 feet down the lane you still have 40 boards on the lane to play with, you can still only get a maximum score of 300, and you still have the same oiling pattern to deal with. It is all up to you on the day to produce the results and ultimately win the zone final. :!: :!: :!:

GOOD LUCK TO THOSE THAT PARTICIPATE. =D> =D>

 

[CIO]

What is wrong with having a home centre advantage :?: :?: Maybe AMF should just give out spots to those people that can't hack it and complain that someone that bowled better than them got it because they had a home centre advantage.

Yes SNEEZY was being sarcastic!!!

What I have read so far in this thread is in my belief beyond a joke. When participating in tournaments whether it be for trying to win a spot for the SPC or for 1st place in a super six tournament, you are going to 90 - 100% of the time have someone that bowls in that centre.

Just because someone may bowl in the centre where the zone final is being held doesn't straight away mean that the person is going to bowl a 200+ average. In my book it doesn't matter whether you bowl in the centre or not. If you are a good enough bowler and use your brains, then you will adjust to the conditions that are given to you on the day and bowl to the best of your ability. After all every bowler that bowls in the zone final has to bowl on the same condition.

Couldn't have put it better myself!!! People, please stop bitching about what's fair and whats not fair!!! At the end of the day, you all have two arms, two legs and a bowling ball. . . just the same as every other player. Just have a go!!!!!

 

[backup scout]

I myself love bowling in the south pacific classic,it is a great tournament and amf do a great job,my opinion about lane conditions is that there should be a set condition considering that all amf centres have or should have a computerised oiling machine,then there would not be an advantage for anyone.Make the pattern different than what is in the centre normally so everyone is playing off with zero advantage.There must be a program in the oiling machine that they could put down if the back end staff knew how to work the oiling machine.It would also be challenging.

 

[AdrianS]

I wonder what it would take to have the 'old' SPC again. All entries from centre finals, all finalists cash. I'm guessing that would eat some major leauge $ so having it this way is probably as close as we'll get to the old days. Plus how many people could be bothered to hit every final in their given city to get a spot like the 'old school' guys sometimes had too?

 

[backup scout]

I LOVE OLD SCHOOL CAUSE I AM OLD,THAT WOULD BE GREAT

 

[milkman]

Dear Cameron

I assume the league you are referring to is International Doubles on Thursday night at Dandenong. Yes our league average is considerably higher than most others in the centre however perhaps instead of assuming it is the condition that is laid that makes the difference have a look at the calibre of bowlers in the league!!

Cheryl Bast

Perhaps you might want to take a look at the same readouts I did tonight, showing that in fact, Thursday nights are oiled differently than any other night of the week.

Most obvious was the increased oil unit count, and the oil on boards 8-10 (thats non existant any other night of the week), creating that nice little "area" for people to play with.

Im not really interested in talking about one specific centre anyway. Im just saying, that consideration must be placed when things like these are created. It should be "out of league" qualifying, perhaps specific time slots on weekends, allowing everyone a fair and even chance to compete under the same conditions. This would also increase AMF's lineage, especially in centres that struggle for weekends. On the other hand, those that are full on weekends, may have to give up some usage to "higher paying" customers, for the sake of tournament bowling in Australia.

 

[Graham]

It should be "out of league" qualifying, perhaps specific time slots on weekends, allowing everyone a fair and even chance to compete under the same conditions.

Cam, nothing stopping your centre (or any other centres for that matter) from doing this. Talk to the manager and set it up.

 

[Morwell Tenpins]

Cameron get real there is no such thing as a home centre advantage. Lets face it for years you bowled at Keon Park and Sunshine and yet you could not win a tournament there.
AMF is given the average league bowlers a chance to mix it with the big boys and hopefully wet their appetites for more tourney down the track. This will in years to come help increase participation in all tournaments across the board (we hope).
In the old days when Sth Pacific was bowled in numerous centres with different lane conditions, it was rare to see local bowler win their home centre final. But no one complained that someone would have an unfair advantage, in fact it was a challenge to travel down to say Frankston and try to win the centre final there .... WHY...because it was a challenge.
So take up the AMF challenge and win your Zone final..........
Because I will be the first to congratualte you on your effort.

To AMF well done, this type of qualifying has been missing for too many years and the older bowlers will know what I mean. It was magic in those days to bowl against Ian Bradford, Frank Ryan, Steve Kiss and co and win a centre final, what a buzz and what great sportsmanship we had. And the bowlers could not wait to bowl in the next centre final.....wherever it was being bowled....... and I can tell you some centres did have odd oiling patterns etc. but who cared we turned up and bowled and had a laugh and turned up again next time........As i said great to see this type of qualifying at AMF.......I would love to be involved as a private centre and maybe AMF will get all centres involved next year........................

 

[Gary]

Yes it's about turn over, but centre and zone final's are fun and are not overly expensive i like the format and i think it will work.
Gary..............