explain this!!

B

Birkett

hey

I have always wondered, when a ball hits the 1-3 pket and it looks like it is a perfect strike that you should be proud of the nine pin just stands there not moving an inch like it is smiling at you! is it because the pins are off set or is it the angle of which you enter the pocket?

i have been robbed of a 300 game by this!

any idea would be a big help thanks

Birkett
 
Hi Birkett,

It is unlikely that an offset rack caused the leave. It is much more likely that the angle of entry was too strong or sharp.

As my name suggests, I do leave my fair share of solid 9's. This is most likely to happen when the ball has a lot of drive or power (and angle), and the ball takes out the 8-pin, instead of what it should take out, which is the 9 pin. The 5 pin is supposed to take the 8 pin, not the ball. So when the angle of entry is too strong, the ball can miss the 9 completely and drive through the 8 pin, which gives you the lovely little surprise we call the 9 pin.

Hope this helps, good luck on knocking over that 9 pin.
 
This was posted a few months ago re leaving an 8 pin

GeorgeF said:
For all those people who wonder why when they hit the 1-3 flush and still leave this standing, this website for some unknown reason goes into alot of detail explaining it. Pictures, Videos, you name it

A little bizarre but hey, thats bowling!

http://www.teamstatpro.com/solid8pin.htm

I have to agree with 9 pin wonder boy and say that your angle of entry is to strong and the ball completly misses the 9 pin. At least it was only the 9 pin and didnt have his mate the 4 pin.

I have seen a site where it has videos and shows you in slow motion why you leave certain pins but I cant remember the site. Maybe someone else can help?
 
Thanks guys!

i bowled agen last night, and nailed 8 straight 1-3 poket strikes, then threw one that was almost identical to the others and it left the dreded 9 pin again! i couldn't believe it! well i guess thats the game of bowling! lol

whould the angle be a main factor in leaving the ten pin or is it that the ball can have to much hook it just goes straight threw with out boucing off?

cheers guys

Birkett
 
This might sound off the track, and I might not be right, but I'll have a crack at this question. I find that leaving an 8 or 9 pin can depend on entry angle and the way you hit the head pin. For instance, sometimes, when yo think it's going to strike, and you leave the 8 or 9 pin, you can go a bit high on the head pin. The high shot may only be only just off your normal pocket shot, but it may not take much in some cases. It can also depend on where you stand on the approach, or how much the ball snaps and hits the head pin at an angle. This might not make sense, and may not be right, but I though I'd have a shot :)

Bubyee

Rowey :p
 
Entry angle is the main factor in leaving the 9 pin. So yes, moving on the approach will have an effect on the entry angle, and therefore you may enter the pocket too strong, in which case you may (or if you're me, you will), leave a 9-pin. There's other possible reasons for strong entry angle, including speed, revs, lane condition dried up a bit in the area you're shooting in, missing your mark (either right and hitting the dry too soon, or left and snapping too early), ball reaction too strong, etc.

Of course, this is reversed for a left hander, to be the 8-pin leave.

Generally with an 8-pin leave (9-pin for left handers), you look, shrug, do whatever you do, go back and spare it, and then next time attempt to bowl the same shot again. I have never left two 8-pins in a row from the pocket, and I don't recall ever seeing it done. It was a quality shot, but you didn't come up trumps that particular time. Chances are, do it again and you'll strike.

With the 10-pin, entry angle is basically everything to do with it. For right handers, the 6-pin takes out the 10 pin from a pocket shot. The most common way to leave the 10 pin is when the 6-pin goes in front of the 10-pin, into the flatgutter, and fails to tap the 10 on its way past. Ideally, you want the 6-pin to take the 10-pin before the 6 is in the flatgutter, because obviously your chances of carrying the 10-pin are better that way than relying on the 6 to tap it from the flatgutter. You can also get the 6-pin driving inside the 10-pin, but this tends to be less common. The thing to make sure of if you're leaving 10-pins is to watch the pins on your strike ball. Make the adjustment of angle based upon what you observe happening. If the ball is driving too hard you can leave corner pins too, so you just have to observe and decide for yourself.
 
Yes entry is the major cause of leaving the 9 pin, but my big question is how you can cream the hell out of the pocket and leave the 7-10 now that is the question that beats the hell out of me

Matthew
 
when you think about it, you couldnt have it a "perfect pocket" shot, other wise the pins would fly in to the curtian!

My theory is that if the ball has 2 much force and to much hook, ur destined to get a wash out, argue me if am rong so what arer ur thawts

cheers

Birkett
 
It's pretty simple, when a ball strikes the pins you deal with 2 main areas of deflection (ball and pin deflection)

Ball Deflection, the ball strikes the pins and is deflected off it's roll path by the impact. This should occur when driving through the 1-3 pins which results in the ball physically contacting the 1-3-5-9 for right handers or the 1-2-5-8 for left handers.

Leaving a 9 pin is commonly caused by a ball which is still driving hard into the pocket, it doesnt get the deflection off the headpin like it should do and it continues on its direction across the deck. What you end up with is a ball that hits the 5 pin solid and continues driving through, it goes right past the 9 pin and leaves it cold. Same thing for the left handers but in reverse, it drives through the 5 and leaves the 8 cold.

The total reverse can happen though, leaving a cold 8 pin is commonly a sign of a ball which is weak on it's entry (loss of energy) and has been deflected too far when it hits the pocket. The ball doesnt drive though the headpin and takes the 5 pin lightly then follows through to hit the 9 pin solid. You need the deflection on the 5 pin to carry the 8 pin (reversed for left handers), a ball that is lacking in energy usually produces this result.

This is where angle of entry plays a part, it isnt however the be all and end all, low ball speeds and low ball weights can have the same effect. A good strike is when a ball hits the pocket, retaining enough energy to drive through the pins, deflect the 1, 3 and 5 pins, then having the ball deflect enough to continue through into the back row and take out the 9. It doesnt really matter how you do it, you can throw it dead straight, but you need a combination of good pin deflection and good ball deflection to carry a strike.

Too little ball and it rolls dead and leaves you a stone cold 8, too much and you can drive past the pins and leave a cold 9 or send the pins flying (you want to try and keep the lower on the deck to maximise carry) but leave the corner pins.

As for the other question, just because a ball is covering boards it doesnt mean it is retaining its energy. If you think you are nailing the pocket and leaving a 7-10 (aside from any terrible rack) you have to examine whether your ball is rolling out and it is hitting like a wet sponge. You can get someone to watch your shot and watch the reaction of your ball mid lane and then when it flips to see what it is doing, you can generally see what happens when your ball hits the pins which will tell you how well it is driving through when you reach the pocket.

Of course, you can be really unlucky with all of it and catch a bad break, there is a science to our game but we still need a little luck thrown in for good measure :)
 
Samael said:
This should occur when driving through the 1-3 pins which results in the ball physically contacting the 1-3-5-9 for right handers or the 1-2-5-8 for left handers.
The ball doesnt drive though the headpin and takes the 5 pin lightly then follows through to hit the 9 pin solid. You need the deflection on the 5 pin to carry the 8 pin (reversed for left handers), a ball that is lacking in energy usually produces this result.

On a flush pocket hit, the ball actually never touches the 5 pin contrary to common belief.
The headpin deflects off the 2 pin, hits the base of the 5 pin before the ball even reaches the 5 pin spot, which knocks the 5 pin in the direction of the 9 pin.

See here for 8 pin leave/movement of the 5 pin (right handed):
http://www.teamstatpro.com/solid8pin.htm

or here for perfect pocket strike:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kennmelvin/vStrike.Htm

With regard to lack of energy causing the 8-pin leave... I've left many an 8 pin with lots of energy and drive.
 
I dont know where you are bowling then because it most certainly hits the 1-3-5-9 when i throw a shot.

Use kevin's video as an example if you wish. Nails the 5 pin and drives it into the 8, even read the text following below his video.

Although this looks spectacular, and happens very fast, notice how the ball only touches four pins (sometimes only three), impacting with the front two pins (1-3 pocket for a right-hander) and then driving through to push the central 5-pin into the back-row 8-pin.

Sounds like hitting the 5 pin to me. :cool:
 
Yes I am aware it says that, I only used that video because it gave a good view of a perfect pocket strike.

But use that video, slow it right down frame by frame, and have a look for yourself. The headpin takes the base of the 5 pin, you can physically see it. The ball does not touch the 5 pin on the 5 pin spot. I never said that the 5 pin doesn't take out the 8, rather that the ball doesn't take the 5 pin :)
 
Dude, are you looking at the same video? The headpin deflects into the 3 pin and off to the wall. It might tap the five pin but the ball is what hits the 5 pin fat, watch it again, once the ball passes the head pin the 5 pin is still standing.

Without the 1 pin deflecting towards the 3 pin and without the ball striking the 5 pin you loose a great majority of pin deflection. If the ball didnt need to hit the 5 pin, why is it tough to carry the same shot when the pin is missing from a full deck?

Every text book, every piece of material ever written will tell you that the key pins struck during a delivery are the 1-3-5-9 for right hand bowlers and the 1-2-5-8 pin for left handers. The 5 pin plays a key part in carrying back row pins, which for the large part are simply along for the ride.



First hit, headpin to the left into the 3.



3 pin heading towards wall, head pin following it. Might be deflection on to the 5 pin but it is still standing



Thats the ball driving the 5 pin back into the 8 pin to carry the pin. Just like kevin's link says and just like every other piece of material every written agree's with.
 
Those pictures make it very hard to prove that it is actually the headpin that does take out the 5. However, I do remember seeing a video once where the 5 pin was clearly hit by the head-pin. Maybe the 9-Pin Wonderboy posted it, I'm not sure I couldn't get the videos to work. Maybe it was when you left an 8 pin or something, or maybe a 9-pin has the ball wouldn't deflect so much off the 5-pin and may miss the 9. Anyways, what I'm trying to say is that I do remember seeing a video where a bowler clearly hit the 5-pin with the headpin.
Also, Samael. Can I guess your left handed?? If your right handed, why is your head pin going into the 3-pin?? I hope my head pin never goes into the 3-pin for one of my pocket strikes.

Later Da Cowman!
 
Yes, but that was a mistake :eek: I was talking about the video, the headpin flies into the 2 pin in the video, not the 3. Sorry.

The ball still strikes the 5 pin flush, they (being just about anything you read) dont say it hits the 1-3-5-9 for no reason you know. That is the ball hitting the 5 pin in the last pic, you can see the 5 pin spot on the deck in relation to the ball.
 
it is got to do with ya hook, because sometimes i have a sharp hook, and also the defection of the Pins, i always leave the 9 pin and half the time miss it :mad:
 
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