Why are our juniors bowling on a ditch for a National Champi

[milkman]

Come on Bankstown ... every tournament seems to be a ditch there, and the national junior championships seem no different.

Lets reel off some statistics:

2001 NSW Open - First Qualifier was 235 average, 16th was 217.7
2002 Sydney Youth Masters - First Qualifier was 229 average, 16th was 204.

Now we have the Junior Nationals:

After 6 games - 18 boys and 6 girls over a 200 average.

After reviewing scores from the Asian Adult FIQ tournament, one must feel we are still not heading in the right direction to educate our junior bowlers that the going is tough when you get overseas.

I know personally, I do not know what an international pattern plays like. We expect our bowlers to go overseas with 1 or 2 weeks practise on the condition they may face, when the other countries get weeks and even months of practise on it, and get a feel of what its like in their tournaments.

Whats the difference with us? Are we doing it to keep bowlers in the sport, because it makes them feel they are bowling good?

Just remember, the top male and female average for president shield (if eligible next year) get to represent our country at next years Asian School Games, so how are these scores justifying that selection crtieria?

Im pretty sure that Bankstown had in excess of 12 months to prepare for this tournament (dont quote me on that), as TBA select the centre well in advanced, so Im sure whoever is responsible for these conditions (whether it be AMF, TBA or a combination), could of easily spent a little time together to work out a condition that plays a little harder, even with the equipment they have there.

Im not a fan of "having my say", without offering an alternative. So here's my say:

Andrew Frawley has been the designated person by TBA for lane conditioning. Thats fine, I commend that decision. However, wouldnt it be wise, for a small committee of people, consisting of TBA members, Australian coaches, profile australian bowlers (in the given state the tournament is to be played) and members from the experienced bowling community to all have a look at how a condition plays before a tournament is run. A few days before is fine, and bowling a FEW balls down the lane doesnt instantly give someone an advantage over other people.

Even if the people that do get the advantage to chuck a ball down, get on to this forum, and tell people in there opinion how it played. I thought the whole idea in this country is to help out as many people as possible, and this just serves to further educate the inexperienced bowlers around the country, and may just promote the sport in a way nobody has thought would be a viable option.

You got comments, feel free to add them.

 

[Magoo]

With you 100 percent milkman.It seems at the moment in this country if half the field doesn't average over 200 then it is classed as a bad tournament.What happened to the best bowler/s on the day winning instead of who has the right or newest equipment.This game,like golf,is about repeatability and technique not who has the most money (or in some cases whose parents have the most money).Now by no means make the conditions so hard so nobody can score,but at least bring back some skill to the game.How many people out there really know how to make adjustments with their hand,on the approach or move their target on the lane to get results on the scoreboard instead of picking up a different ball and stand in the same spot all day,how boring.Bring back some challenge to the game,then tournament numbers might pick up again.If the emphasis is taken away from skill and placed on equipment the game might as well die now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cannot wait for sports leagues,at least then some steps forward might be made with more realistic averages to work with.
Till next time
Tryhard

 

[bfcc]

milkman i agree with what you are saying but why stop there, take a look at some of the scores at an adult level(using the super 6 events) they are just as bad-

canberra open 2001
top 234
16th 221

spc 2001
top 228
16th 214

sa cup 2001
top 226
16th 208
qld cup 2002
top 237
16th 217
now these are just from the national tournaments lets not go to the state level.

the juniors just want to bowl on the same conditions that the so called elite bowlers bowl on, so they can compare just how good they are to the elite bowlers.

 

[GeorgeF]

Whilst I agree with everything which has been said, I must raise just one point which most fail to remember, THE BEST BOWLERS STILL ALWAYS WIN NO MATTER THE CONDITION.

I agree our scores are inflated. Caboolture is on the right track with it's sport series, event no.2 having only 2 bowlers shoot over 200 on one of the easiest carrying centres in the country. Take way the carry and I feel only 1-3 bowlers may have shot over 200 for the whole series.

AMF can't set down International FIQ, PBA, PWBA patterns because Kegle machines are the only machines that can do it. The SUMMIT's and BULLET's are ok and you can make them tough but to bowl at the highest standard we must first replicate the highest standard conditions and that can only be done with a Kegle.

I think the SA Cup has been the best event this year. I have no doubts that NSW Open in 2 weeks will generate high scores and a few 300's over the weekend, I feel the South Pacific could be a different story though.

Just my 2 cents worth

 

[D]

i'd just like to say that i have been at the nationals and there has been one 300 i have seen a 299 a few 279's. And there has been some really good other games for some bowlers that dont normally bowl that good.

I dont think that Bankstown lanes are a ditch as i bowl there every week and have got my best scores at there lanes at this tournament.

 

[androooo]

Ok...here is just my opinion.

I think the blame goes to Head Techs/lanesmen, and managers of bowling centres. Why? Because in this age of, so it seems, falling numbers of bowlers, they have to do something to entice bowlers back. EVERYBODY likes to throw big scores, it's an ego thing. So to get the bowlers back for the next season, and to try and persuade bowlers from other centres, the manager gets the head tech to put out an easier condition. When the centre down the road hears this, and starts losing bowlers because of it, they put out an even easier condition. and it just goes round and round and round.

This has found it's way to tournaments in this way. Because bowlers have that ego, and mentality of thinking they should be able to average 230 anywhere, if they get on a harder condition, where they average only 200, they think what is the point of bowling that tournament again....."I can't bowl my average there, so I not gonna bowl in it again"

Don't get me wrong, I know not all bowlers are like this. Personally, I like the challenge. While I may not bowl my best on that condition, I know it has challenged myself, and other bowlers. I commend what Caboolture has done, with the tournaments that they run, using Sport Conditions. It gets people out of the grind of bowling in a "who can carry the best" tournament. I know for a fact, that in Hobart, it would not work. People like bowling on the dry ditch, because they can use that old, oil-logged pearl reactive, made prior to 1997, and still get it to move. Does that help bowlers improve. I don't think so.


As I said before, these are just my opinions. I would love to hear, as I think everybody would, from a manager/lanesman on why they put such easy shots out.

 

[quasi2k]

I remember last year, bowling in a qualifier for the Brunswick Cup. The laneman was touting how the shot was going to be exactly like the one in A.C.T. I figured, heck...I even have a chance on that shot, seeing the printout said it was a 10-10 wall. Apparently, the programming on the machine put down a pattern totally unlike what was printed out. I believe that I still shot my average on that "terribly challenging" shot. Some of the higher avg. bowlers in the area did nothing but complain, and even a few walked out. I stuck it out, and due to the laneman's mistake, got a free entry to the Brunswick Cup.

If you change the shot, all the ego driven bowlers will leave, because they cannot adapt to the conditions. I will stay, and learn to adjust to the conditions. And will become a more versatile bowler because of it.

This is not a good example for the youth bowlers. Put out a cake shot and let them shoot the lights out. Put out a demanding shot instead and at least force them to learn how to adapt, that way they will at least be somewhat prepared for any shot they might see. Make them better bowlers, not make them feel better that they scored so high.

The name of the game is bowling, not scoring.

 

[farma]

Seems we are having our two cents worth. I'll put mine in too.

I believe that you have got to ask yourself what you are trying to achieve in any given tournament before critising the lane conditions. Whilst I agree that having the lane walled at 10 doesn't improve anyones bowling or skills. You have to look at the range of skills of the bowlers competing.

Whilst I would think that some of the junior bowlers in Australia could and would compete on a condition like Asian Zone Champs (and lets remember that there was in fact two conditions, and anyone that was there would tell you that made it much harder than if you had been bowling on just one of the two conditions set down)there appears to be a number of slightly lower average junior bowlers at the nationals that would be blown out the water on a condition like FIQ's. I would have thought that the aim of the nationals is to encourage the next generation of bowlers, not destroy them so that they will never compete on a national level again. As well conducting a premier event to showcase the skills of the top junior bowlers in the country.

On the other hand, the I believe that top tournaments, focused on entries from elite bowlers, and establishing the top bowlers in the nation such as the NSW Open, SPC, etc. should have a challenging (not necessarily sport) condition that requires shot execution, rather being able to hit an area that is about the size of 1/4 of the lane and getting the ball to the pocket every time.

We must remember that we are involved in a sport, and a sport requires some level of skill, technique, and practice. I don't believe that bowling is a sport when you can show up once a week, throw a 700 series, have a few beers, and go home, that is a recreation. As long as bowling is perceived as a recreation then we will not become an Olympic sport.

I believe the first step it turning this great game back into a sport is by ensuring that nationally, and internationally recognised events are conducted on challenging but fair lane conditions that rewards the ability of the athlete (and that is what we are) to make good shots!

To read more:
www.foundation300.com

 

[Golden Greek]

Getting back to why this topic was started .... who really cares if they are bowling on a ditch or not.

It isn't that big of a ditch anyway. It is the same shot for all of them and it is no different to how the shot has been at Bankstown all this year.

Odds are it will be the same shot in 2 weeks at NSW Open and then the same for Rachuig.

As George said - when it is all said and done the best bowler still wins.

Anyway Milkman - you should be praying the shot stays that way - it is the only way any body will get near NSW come Rachuig.

Good on the Juniors for posting some of the scores that they have. Good to see there is some talent coming through the ranks.

Hey Sue, start looking over your shoulder at Sam. Man she is starting to get good. Looks like it won't be too long before mum starts getting wooped.

Looks like "The Gang" could have a new member in 2 - 3 years time.

Greg K

 

[Michelle]

yes there was a lot of good games bowled over at the nationals this year, but if you wanna go and look at the 3 days of shield, i think it was for the girls only, there was a 132 games bowled under the score of 150!!
man, there must have been a massive ditch there.......

 

[craig]

the shot was a little open, but there was an o.b there

the thing with bankstown was that it was a pure shot makers condition, the better quality of bowler really rose to the top. I thought it was refreshing to see guys with good techniques rise to the top for once.

 

[Dj bruv on da mix]

What is the problem???, im not sure on the exact numbers but, im sure that centres with ditches....and centres with a tuff condition would be 50/50 australia wide, so its time people built a bridge and got over it

Mark Foster

 

[Game_On]

Thank you foster!!!!

I say bowl on what you are given! last year was tough this year wasnt so tough big deal.

 

[Youngy]

Im with dan bowl what u are given to bowl on
The condition wasnt that much of a ditch anyway... there was some hold but it wasnt the easiest condition i have bowled on and definitely not the hardest

There were only 15 guys who averaged over 200 which is still good. I have to say there was lots of great bowling during the nationals and shield, a very successful event

The victorian rachuig averages were also pretty high if i remember correctly as well..

 

[nicola]

bowling will struggle to make it to olympic standards with the current high scoring conditions. a perfect 10 in gymnastics is very rare. how rare is our perfect score? not very.
does our sport have the credibility to make olympic standards??

 

[Andrew Frawley]

Actually to obtain a 300 during Asian Zone, European Zone, American Zone or even World FIQ Championships is not that common.

Greg, Yes thank you, Sam is bowling very well lately, however, do you really think she has what it takes to become part of "The Gang"!!!!!!

Catch you all on Saturday Night - Looking forward to a BIG one!

Love
Sue Cassell