Should locals get an advantage for National events?

[tonx]

What if you are not mentally conditioned on that squad? There are a lot of what if's so I truly believe that the bowler who will win the event is the best bowler who is throwing the best shot ON THE DAY.
Thats my say...
Leo

Good point Leo,

My post wasnt based on how to win tournaments, (god, if I only knew the answer to that!) but more like reading the statement the best bowler will win, regardless of the pattern, and stating that this isnt the case.

Some bowlers bowl better on short shots, some on long.
On easier shots, there are some bowlers that will dominate, where as others are better at grinding out and making all their spares. Of course proverbially 'every dog, has his day', however it is a proven fact that certain styles suit certain conditions more so than others. The pattern DOES play a huge role in deciding the winner.

This is getting a little back onto the topic, however for the first time in recorded history, I am going to agree with GF , and say it is fair for locals to have the advantage, as long as they wanna work their asses off to gain that advantage. However nothing should be put in place to not allow other centres access to the pattern.

Regards.

 

[rychenroller]

My post wasnt based on how to win tournaments, (god, if I only knew the answer to that!) but more like reading the statement the best bowler will win, regardless of the pattern, and stating that this isnt the case.
Some bowlers bowl better on short shots, some on long.
On easier shots, there are some bowlers that will dominate, where as others are better at grinding out and making all their spares. Of course proverbially 'every dog, has his day', however it is a proven fact that certain styles suit certain conditions more so than others. The pattern DOES play a huge role in deciding the winner.

Disagree here Tonx, lets have a look at the results of the tournaments that the good bowlers actually chase...the rankings tour;

2005

SA: Belmo
Cannington: McArthur
Canberra: Lean
Masters: Trotts
AO: Little
K&K: Frilingos
Qld Cup: Frilingos
Perth cup: Belmo
MTC: McArthur
NSW Open: Romeo
Mackay: Frilingos
SPC: Frilingos
NQ: Brando
Nationals: Riley
Australian Cup: McArthur

2006

Cairns: Brando
SA: Pilko
AO: Porto...

I'm sure the pattern would repeat but how many of these bowlers wouldnt be in the top 10 bowlers in the country? Maybe Pilko, Romeo (certainly was at one stage) as was Matt Riley, who has won majors before. All of the others listed would be comfortable in the top 10 bowlers in the country, maybe even top 5 for the most part.

Of these so called "surprise winners" how many would have won the tournament because the practiced on the condition? I couldnt answer it, only the bowlers could...but theres a definite pattern here. Best bowlers win tournaments.

 

[Resurrection]

There is nothing stopping any bowling centre and asking if they could get a copy of the lane condition or in the event that it is a ranked event I believe the lane condition is posted on the TBA website if I am not mistaken. So if the locals get the advantage of bowling on the condition then good luck to them.

Matthew Lambrick

 

[Muels1]

Some bowlers bowl better on short shots, some on long.
On easier shots, there are some bowlers that will dominate, where as others are better at grinding out and making all their spares. Of course proverbially 'every dog, has his day', however it is a proven fact that certain styles suit certain conditions more so than others. The pattern DOES play a huge role in deciding the winner.

I am sorry Tonx but if you look at the list of all the bowlers Adam (rycehroller) posted i am pretty sure that everyone will agree that it doesnt matter what condition they lay down on the lanes, these guys will be up there everytime coz the simple answer is "THEY ARE THE BEST".
I reckon in 95% of the tournaments, if you looked at the top 3 finishers in those events you will still find the same names and other bowlers who are rated the best in the country, regardless of what u put down on lanes. Why! Coz put simple they are the best!!!!
Yes Trotts missed at AO this year but like has been said everyone is entitled to a bad day.
The best bowlers will be up there everytime. The day that we see all of those names not making a cut of finishing in the top 10 will be the day BELMO turns 80!!!! LOL!

 

[Easy Tiger]

There is nothing stopping any bowling centre and asking if they could get a copy of the lane condition or in the event that it is a ranked event I believe the lane condition is posted on the TBA website if I am not mistaken. So if the locals get the advantage of bowling on the condition then good luck to them.
Matthew Lambrick

K&K's pattern isn't up yet.

I wonder why that is.

 

[tonx]

I have just seen the TBA website and saw the 3 men selected for the Worlds Team. I believe that with a dual condition the 3 mentioned are the first 3 that should be selected. Myself, Walshy and Jarrod have all had extensive experiance on the dual patterns and I am positive our 3 shots will match up best to both conditions.
As for George not been named??? What George does, he does better than anyone else in the country, he plays the gutter. The long oil pattern though is suited to those who can play deeper inside. Can George play inside?? YES, but can he do it better than the above 3 mentioned?? NO
Now you might be saying, well why is he not in the team based on the Short OIL factor?? Basically I can play the gutter better than George can play inside and so can the other 2 boys.

seems im not the only one that thinks pattern defines results.... Funny that. Number 1 ranked bowler in this country should walk into any aussie team, can't because the lanes favour other bowlers.

Anyone that thinks lane conditions dont matter, is kidding themselves in the entirety... George thinks practising on the pattern is an advantage, Belmo believes length of oil defines those more likely to score better, what more do you want? Even any competent lane mechanic will tell you there is ways to totally shut out types of bowlers by altering patterns.

I could be bothered, and make a huge post bringing results on the PBA, but rather just mention 1 name. Parker Bohn. no longer matches up to the current 5 pba patterns, yet is one of the greatest bowlers of all time. Why isnt he winning tournaments if patterns dont play a part?


Here is something for you to think about, using myself as an example.

How many people here would have backed me in top 30 in AO before bowling it? I practised on the pattern for 6 weeks before the event (1 week off from being in hospital) How many finished below me that you guys (myself included) believe are better bowlers?

My final word, bash all you want.

 

[craig]

parker bohn in the last 2 years has bowled 42 events for 42 cashes (100%) and 32 cuts (76%) and 6 tv finals (14%)

in his career he has bowled 558 events, cashed in 375 (67%) and cut in 272 (48%) for 101 tv finals (18%)

he currently hasn't travelled too bad, just not winning, and it isn't easy to win out there

 

[rychenroller]

My final word, bash all you want.

Dont adopt your siege mentality here...I'm not bashing. Of course patterns help certain bowlers. George plays an awesome gutter shot, Walshy plays the perfect deep shot, Trotts shot suits when the heads break down, etc etc. But the fact is, these players are the best in the country. If I bowled on a condition that suited and that I'd bowled on before several times, it might help me get from 30th to 10th but I wouldnt win, why?

Coz I'm not good enough.

 

[Jase]

K&K's pattern isn't up yet.
I wonder why that is.

Tim,

Why is it easier for most people to use this site as an opportunity to have a shot at TBA and post something on here rather than send Peter Coburn an email asking him? The reason that the pattern isn’t up yet is because he hasn’t been able to get in contact with the person who has the KOSI programme so the pattern can be put into it and be loaded onto the sites.

I have a copy of it on my fax machine and have had for about 4 days now, so i am sure if you need to know what it looks like either email Peter and ask him to fax you a copy yourself as i did. If you contact me as Shayne Melton did yesterday you also could be faxed a copy. Better yet if you know of anyone who has this programme get in contact with me.

There isn’t any secret in the pattern, just once again when things are done voluntarily and people have other business to run it sometimes takes a little longer than hoped.

Rome wasn’t built in a day!!!!

 

[RobbieB]

I think the pattern should be available before the event, and preferably on the lanes in the centre for those who want to practice on it, for a couple of reasons. First, the centre needs to see how it plays on the actual lanes that will be used in the tournament - often patterns need to be adjusted for one reason or another. Second, and more importantly, the pattern determines the equipment and surface needed. Having the correct equipment to match up to the pattern can make the difference between winnig or losing, or for us lesser mortals , cashing or not. If the pattern is not available, this puts the first squad at a huge disadvantage to the rest of the field, as everyone else can get an idea of how the balls are reacting and how the pattern breaks down, and time to make equipment decisions accordingly.

Cheers, Robbie.

 

[Muels1]

How many people here would have backed me in top 30 in AO before bowling it? I practised on the pattern for 6 weeks before the event (1 week off from being in hospital) How many finished below me that you guys (myself included) believe are better bowlers?

My question is how did you get the Australian Open pattern 6 weeks before the event??? The entry form came out only 8 weeks before the actual start of the tournament and the oil pattern was only released on the net on the 10/4/06 ... 4 days before the tourn!!!

No one in my own centre knew what pattern was gonna be laid (not that it mattered coz we dont have a KEGEL) and when we bowled league for the whole week and a half before the AO we were told "that is the AO pattern" and everytime we bowled it was a different condition to what was down for the event! Yet you had the pattern 6 weeks before hand???

Yes i wont deny that practising on it will help and as you said it did help you but the best bowlers will still prevail time and time again.
Not having a go TONX but can you honestly tell me that if you practised on all the big tournament patterns 6 weeks before each event that you are gonna finish top 5 each time???

 

[tonx]

Not having a go TONX but can you honestly tell me that if you practised on all the big tournament patterns 6 weeks before each event that you are gonna finish top 5 each time???

I did have my final say, however this statement is a direct question.

I can honestly state, that if I trained on any pattern before an event, I would improve my chances of finishing much much higher than I otherwise would. I know for a fact our number 1 ranked bowler has booked lanes to practise on the ctbc pattern, if he is the best, why would he bother practising on the pattern? You don't believe the same? I challenge you to come down to even ONE practise session with me, and see how you fare in the next tournament comming......

The whole topic is about an advantage practising on a pattern.

 

[Easy Tiger]

Tim,
Why is it easier for most people to use this site as an opportunity to have a shot at TBA and post something on here rather than send Peter Coburn an email asking him? The reason that the pattern isn’t up yet is because he hasn’t been able to get in contact with the person who has the KOSI programme so the pattern can be put into it and be loaded onto the sites.
I have a copy of it on my fax machine and have had for about 4 days now, so i am sure if you need to know what it looks like either email Peter and ask him to fax you a copy yourself as i did. If you contact me as Shayne Melton did yesterday you also could be faxed a copy. Better yet if you know of anyone who has this programme get in contact with me.
There isn’t any secret in the pattern, just once again when things are done voluntarily and people have other business to run it sometimes takes a little longer than hoped.
Rome wasn’t built in a day!!!!

Jason,

I appreciate it is voluntary. I appreciate it takes time. I am quite sure there is no secret in the pattern, and I am also sure that this years pattern will be legal.. It's all a bit of a catch 22 isn't it.

However I still don't understand why TBA and AMF arranged to have the machine sent on Tuesday of the week of the tournament, two days before the start, and one day before people want to practice on the condition. As far as I can see, this machine did not need to be anywhere else in at least the week prior to the event. I was down the back last year at Kedron when the Kegel arrived, and I am pretty sure it arrived more than two days before the event. I might also add that it took more than one day of tweaking the pattern too to get it right from memory. The tournament pattern I practiced on two days before the tournament last year was most certainly not the one laid when I bowled the final squad.

Jason I am not here to accuse anyone of anything. However I don't see why the machine is scheduled to arrive so late. Yes perhaps there is some logistical schedule with it that I don't know about that has prevented it coming earlier, I don't know. I don't need to elaborate on the pattern any further. This years I am sure will be perfectly fine.

You're right, Rome wasn't built in a day, but it did fall in a day. My concern is with bowlers and bowling in general. I'm not here to bash TBA or anyone else, but if I see an issue I'll raise it. Wasn't that half the point of having a forum in the first place Jase?

 

[GeorgeF]

Tonx I'm not sure why you feel the need to have a go at me time after time but let me explain why I booked those lanes.

I didn't accidently become Australia's No.1 ranked bowler by accident, in case you missed some of my previous posts, I sucked at bowling for 17yrs. I became no.1 because

* I adapted my game to mimic already successful bowlers
* Practised more than anyone else in the country
* Attended bowling tournaments Internationally to learn and bowl against the world's best
* Attended bowling seminars Internationally to learn about core dynamics
* Practised some more.......

I booked those lanes because this is one of the most prestigeous tournaments that any bowler in Australia could ever aspire to. This is a one off opportunity for my friends and family to see me represent my country in my home country.

I am an avid believer of hard work and practise and since I don't reside in Melbourne my preparation for this event is quite limiting. Apart from the heaps of practise I will do here on Anvilane I have contacted Altona Bowl to bowl for a few hours on the said patterns.

I started this post because in the current world we live in today I believe keeping things secret leads to deceit. If everything is out in the open, like lane conditions, lane surface, etc than everyone knows the playing field for which we are playing. Just like on the PBA, the lane condition is set weeks and months before the event. There are no secrets, people go there knowing quite well what to expect.

Some people have the luxury of practising on the condition or setting it in their local centre which is great. Yes maybe this is a little unfair to people who don't have these resources but there are already arguements on people who are sponsored having an advantage. At the end of the day, you have to perform when it counts. A lane condition never stopped the winner from winning the tournament.

Preparation is the key to success (as my boss always said Pre Planning Prevents Pi55 Poor Performance, the 6 P's). If you don't have access to the pattern why not just practise at a little harder at home? I am looking forward to the CTBC and would hope that there would be many bowlers there supporting the Aussies.

Well, I think my views are pretty clear on the matter. Practise, learn and practise some more......

 

[Cam S]

off the topic slightly does anyone know what time wednesday the condition will be down and available to be bowled on?

 

[tonx]

Tonx I'm not sure why you feel the need to have a go at me time after time but let me explain why I booked those lanes.

George, sorry if it came across as having a go at you in this case. As a matter of fact, I was applauding the fact that even though you are ranked number 1, you are still willing to work your ass off on the next tournament pattern.... This is by no means "having a go" but more promoting the fact that to win, one must do everything in their power to give themselves the best chance..... If practising on a upcomming pattern wasnt an advantage, why would YOU bother doing so?

 

[Cam S]

I did have my final say, however this statement is a direct question.
I can honestly state, that if I trained on any pattern before an event, I would improve my chances of finishing much much higher than I otherwise would. I know for a fact our number 1 ranked bowler has booked lanes to practise on the ctbc pattern, if he is the best, why would he bother practising on the pattern? You don't believe the same? I challenge you to come down to even ONE practise session with me, and see how you fare in the next tournament comming......
The whole topic is about an advantage practising on a pattern.

Tonx

Hows that different to tiger woods and other golfers on the PGA tour practising on a course in the lead up to an event.

No difference if you ask me.

 

[tonx]

Tonx
Hows that different to tiger woods and other golfers on the PGA tour practising on a course in the lead up to an event.
No difference if you ask me.

So you are agreeing with me? LMAO....

Sometimes i think you QLD'ers speak an entirely different language to us Vic's

 

[Hammer]

Jason,
I appreciate it is voluntary. I appreciate it takes time. I am quite sure there is no secret in the pattern, and I am also sure that this years pattern will be legal.. It's all a bit of a catch 22 isn't it.

Tim, Are you saying that last years pattern wasnt legal?????

 

[Easy Tiger]

It was passed as legal, so the answer is yes it was legal.

My interest is in this year's tournament, and I just want to see the best thing done by all bowlers, and by Kirstie as well. It affects her as much as anyone else, and she has enough to worry about without having to worry about machines, patterns, etc.