"THS" Is it good for bowling?

Bigsy

Bigsalis
Hi Guys,

I was just wondering your opinion on whether or not a house shot is good thing for bowling?

I say this because I would prefer to bowl on tough pattern and face the challanges that it throws at you, rather than bowl on a house shot which let's you shoot big scores at relative ease.

I only have 2 bowling balls (excluding my spare ball) which are both polished and have only bowled on synthetic lanes once (Emerson 2010, Bendigo) I don't know what pattern was laid but it got a bit easier as the day went on.

Are there centres / leagues that play on tough patterns?, and if so, do you prefer to bowl on them rather than a "THS"

Cheers,

Bigsy...
 
This topic had been bought up many times before,and theres always been some good debates in the past as to whether Easy conditions are good or bad for your bowling.
In my opinion it really depends on whether you want to bowl tournaments or happy just to be a house bowler.
Most house bowlers that do not bowl tournaments,would prefer just bowling on a house pattern,mainly because they dont know any differant,so if that means they can Average 210 on a easy condition,and there happy then so be it.
Its only bowlers that wish to participate in tournaments,rachuig etc..,they may get effected by going to a differant centre with a tougher shot,and there lost and dont know what to do.
Then you have that group of bowlers that can bowl on anything.It wouldnt matter if they didnt bowl on a tough condition in 6 months,They would turn up and the chances are they will still bowl finish on the top 10 or even Top 5.
You really need all centres to put a sport condition down day in day out,for people to get used to the condition.However bear in mind only a small percentage of bowlers bowl tournaments, so the rule of majority rules apply,you would have a lot of unhappy bowlers that simply want to have fun and dont want to put the mental effort in to achieve high scores on a tough condition.
 
Well , Well , Well , What a topic to be raised again

To begin with , fundamentally the game WAS based apon accuacy however
today due to lane conditions it is based on bowling in an area, which suits others
and does not really suit all

So to me YES all Centres should be made to lay a decent condition all the time

Yes it will bring down the averages of the everyday league bowlers, but so what they only have a false average anyway, sorry but there are very, very few 220 average bowlers in Australia.
People average telephone numbers in Tournaments and leagues and it is a false sense of thier own abilities

Some Centre say "We cant lay a decent pattern" because the league bowlers cant bowl their stupid inflated averages and they might drive 15 minutes down the road and bowl in another Centre that lay ditches

If we ever truly want this to be considered a sport in this Country One thing we must do is to get that part of the Skill requirement back into the game so when you miss, you miss. Unlike now when you miss by 7 boards you still hit

Apart from all the other arguements what about a bit of pride and self worth
in knowing you are getting the result you deserve, we all know that right now it is a joke and cheapens the Game
 
I feel if centres did lay a tougher pattern,people would adapt and get used to it even though the averages would drop,however its how many league bowlers that are prepared to adapt?? I dont care what condition they throw at me,ill have a go and do my best on it,even if it means i go down to a 190 avg again,then so be it.
 
190 in one place is good, 220 in other places is good. But making a centre lay down a 'decent' condition? Nahh, just keeps the "jealous' bowlers happy as they stand up the back arms folded going "hmmmphh they only bowl 170 on this, not their 'normal' 220"
Oh well bugger that lot
 
For years I've had people tell me that high scores and easy conditions are good for bowlers (keeps everybody happy if they can average 200) and better for bowling.....doesnt look to me like bowling is going that great at the moment.....
 
Hippy, it's a Price thing that gets the Bowlers in, charge the right Price and the Centre's will be full. Nothing to do with Walls, the Average Bowler can't read a Wall, it will actually stiffle his Bowling. The Average Bowler uses a Plastic Ball and if he has to Bowl on Lanes after the Premier League in the House Bowls, he will not be able to turn it, this is more likely to be a turn-off than Walls.

willey
 
It's not what the leagues are bowling on. It's the complete lack of knowledge in the leagues. Educate the bowlers on what they are bowling on and WHY it's different from the tournament patterns. People who have no handicap in Golf know that they probably won't be going around Augusta at par, because everyone knows it's hard.

Cheers, Cow
 
Well , Well , Well , What a topic to be raised again

To begin with , fundamentally the game WAS based apon accuacy however
today due to lane conditions it is based on bowling in an area, which suits others
and does not really suit all

So to me YES all Centres should be made to lay a decent condition all the time

Yes it will bring down the averages of the everyday league bowlers, but so what they only have a false average anyway, sorry but there are very, very few 220 average bowlers in Australia.
People average telephone numbers in Tournaments and leagues and it is a false sense of thier own abilities

Some Centre say "We cant lay a decent pattern" because the league bowlers cant bowl their stupid inflated averages and they might drive 15 minutes down the road and bowl in another Centre that lay ditches

If we ever truly want this to be considered a sport in this Country One thing we must do is to get that part of the Skill requirement back into the game so when you miss, you miss. Unlike now when you miss by 7 boards you still hit

Apart from all the other arguements what about a bit of pride and self worth
in knowing you are getting the result you deserve, we all know that right now it is a joke and cheapens the Game

I believe this has happened quite a few times at quite a few centres. I have spoken with a few bowlers myself who tell me about their 200+ averages at other centres, only to bowl in my league and shoot 160 - 170. Funny, they only seem to bowl one season and then vanish

By the way, does anyone know what pattern was laid at Emerson Bendigo?

Bigsy...
 
Hippy, it's a Price thing that gets the Bowlers in, charge the right Price and the Centre's will be full. Nothing to do with Walls, the Average Bowler can't read a Wall, it will actually stiffle his Bowling. The Average Bowler uses a Plastic Ball and if he has to Bowl on Lanes after the Premier League in the House Bowls, he will not be able to turn it, this is more likely to be a turn-off than Walls.

willey

Price as a major determinant is a really good point. Walled lanes are there to satisfy delicate egos though. Joe average with his plastic ball usually doesn't throw it outside "10-bored" to see if it hooks. Many proprietors, including AMF, have been sucked into the "my bowlers will be happier if they strike like crazy" mentality and it works for a while. It's just that when they discover that everyone else can too, they can get disillusioned and quit altogether. When it was tougher, there were a lot more journeyman players about, constantly working on their game.

It's not what the leagues are bowling on. It's the complete lack of knowledge in the leagues. Educate the bowlers on what they are bowling on and WHY it's different from the tournament patterns. People who have no handicap in Golf know that they probably won't be going around Augusta at par, because everyone knows it's hard.

Cheers, Cow

Another good point. When people are taught to actually see ball motion and just how much free room the walled lanes give them, they understand that the PHS (Pathetic House Shot - I'd like to anonymously thank the manager who shared that term with me) is at best, a bit of a joke and at worst, just cheating. When people understand that the PHS is bumper bowling, they treat it for what it's worth - and that's not a lot. Best to make sure you enjoy the company of your bowling buddies, because that's the best bit about league bowling in so many places.

Re: "THS" Is it good for bowling? - It's a very good question. It makes the machines go up and down less, that's for sure!

The walled/blocked lane trains you to get comfortable throwing lots of strikes and this is useful in tournament bowling. It's good for learning how to overcome wet/dry patterns. And there's probably a few more positives like learning to acutely observe ball motion to improve carry, but how many of us do these things in league, or ever? Most of us learn to throw it pretty straight and hoik it up 10-bored.

There's just a big lack of knowledge. I'd play golf greens every bit as badly, as I know nothing about them. Moving your feet is advanced technique for a lot of players these days and I've met people who never change their target and average 200+. With a 10-bored ditch, literally creating a depression ground into the lane after a few years as everyone plays there, people aren't accurate and only learn the most rudimentary moves, as it's all they need for adult bumper bowling.

So in conclusion, the THS has a few redeeming features that an advanced player can use, but doesn't promote learning the game for the novice. Therefore it actually widens the gap between them, which is unfair and may help to explain why so many novices go do something else. If you don't have the knowledge to play a ditch, you probably feel that you'll never make up the big difference between your average and the big shooters.

My personal pet peeve with the THS is that because the ball hooks so much more outside the wall, many of them only allow one shape of shot to be competitive and nearly all of them promote impeded ball roll, by way of either a weak release or very high speed. (Fudging or chucking.)
 
Excellent post Jason, summed it up completely. It is deflating these days to know that often in league if you leave a ringing 10-pin, you've just lost the game.. in the 2nd or 3rd frame. If you're up against a semi-decent opponent often they've got enough lead to run away with the game.
 
Excellent post Jason, summed it up completely. It is deflating these days to know that often in league if you leave a ringing 10-pin, you've just lost the game.. in the 2nd or 3rd frame. If you're up against a semi-decent opponent often they've got enough lead to run away with the game.

I remember being paired with David Porto during a tournament about 2 years ago. Unfortunately the challenge in terms of hitting the pocket wasn't present for this event. 4 qualifiers averaged over 240. Every 10 pin (or 7 pin in Porto's case) was followed with the comment "well there goes 21 pins".

I never want to see bowling like that again.
 
Thanks Fellas,

I posted this elsewhere today, but it's very relevant to this thread too, so I'm double-dipping with it.

Think of a house shot this way...
  1. Get a long cake.
  2. Line it up like a bowling lane.
  3. Ice it with a palette knife, working the ice thinly from the edges to thick in the middle.
  4. Now take your palette knife and remove the icing from 1/3 of one end. That's your backend.
  5. Draw a construction line down the centre of the cake, dividing it in half longitudinally.
  6. Divide these halfs into halfs again. You now have four skinny quarters.
  7. Now take the palette knife and remove the icing from the outside quarters of the cake.
  8. That's what most house shots look like.

With approximately half the lane set up as miss area, does anyone still wonder why we think it's a joke?
 
As far as I'm concerned, I'm not fussed whether leagues are really walled up, if you don't want to bowl on walled up lanes, go and bowl in the leagues where they're not well maintained.
Tournaments are a different story though, they should be difficult at that level, that's why they're tournaments after all.
I remember being paired with David Porto during a tournament about 2 years ago. Unfortunately the challenge in terms of hitting the pocket wasn't present for this event. 4 qualifiers averaged over 240. Every 10 pin (or 7 pin in Porto's case) was followed with the comment "well there goes 21 pins".

I never want to see bowling like that again.

Yeah, I recall bowling in tournaments here when they were as walled up as buggery - it was absolutely ridiculous and everybody knew it.
One skins tournament I played, one particular game I had a 275 game and that came fourth!
Behind a 299, 298 and 279.
This was just a little local tournament.

Gimme an ugly condition anyday, I got no hope in a carry contest.
 
Yeah, I recall bowling in tournaments here when they were as walled up as buggery - it was absolutely ridiculous and everybody knew it.
One skins tournament I played, one particular game I had a 275 game and that came fourth!
Behind a 299, 298 and 279.
This was just a little local tournament.

Hey, I enjoyed that day. My wallet was $350 fatter after that. :D Only averaged 266 for 5.

Back to the original topic... Most bowlers, especially down here, are too soft. Most nights in league, I only have 3 boards area... it's just that all 3 have an arrow drawn on them. There was one night where the tech intentionally put out a flat condition, to wake people up. I loved it, because it rewarded good shotmaking... however my ears ended up bleeding because of the number of people *****ing and moaning.

I get that bored during league, that I actually try to come in light just to see how many atomic messengers I can send around the deck.
 
Is a "THS" good for bowling? Yes and No.

The Yes side:
"Average" bowlers find themselves bowling better than they ever have. They are happy because they are shooting numbers previously only hit by the "pro" bowlers.
"New" bowlers are happy because with the smallest of effort (or purchase of a strike-in-a-box ball) they can go from sub 100 to a 180 average in a short time.
Owners/Managers are happy because these bowlers spend money every week and encourage friends to come over the that centre because the league is fun.

The No side:
Over inflated "average" bowlers struggle on tougher conditions so they dont return to tournaments/centres that lay harder patterns. They then tell other "average" bowlers not to bother cause the pattern is "rubbish" and "impossible to play". So Tournament entries decline.
"Educated" bowlers become bored with league bowling and instead of bowling and practising 3-4 times a week they drop to one league and the occasional practice.

This isn't a big enough concern for most owners/mangers, so things don't change very quickly. As more and more bowlers decide they want to improve, the numbers convince centres to run tougher conditions. I know that in Melbourne for example, where there was once only 2 sports leagues, there are now at least 6+ and more on the way.

To go back to an old topic on here, the idea of 3 pattern levels is really the only way to please everyone. Bronze level patterns for open play, beginner and social/fun leagues. Silver patterns for intermediate and advanced leagues and centre/state tournaments. Gold patterns for elite leagues and national ranked events. These paths should allow for the development of a bowler from novice to elite and along the way, provide them with the knowledge to read and play any condition and prepare them for a time when they may wish to take on the world.
 
That bronze, silver,gold thingy has the potential to really upset and alienate many house bowlers, who will definately get their nose out of joint I reckon.. Try telling a 50 yr bloke who just rolled his first 300 game that is was only a bronze condition, thereby dismissing his once in a lifetime achievement... You may be upsetting and turning away your bread and butter customers.. Just a thought.

Isn't that why we have sports patterns at a few centres? To give the keen bowler more of a challenge... My local golf course isn't Pebble Beach, why make my local bowling centre that way...

Promoting/advertising this sport would be of better value... Did anyones centre even remotely acknowledge Belmo's achievment being first Aussie male to win PBA event in 2009. Mine didn't.... Does your centre have any information re lessons/improvement or anything re PBA tour, mine doesn't... I know I'm getting off track a little, but the ave joe bowler should (in an ideal world) be interested to see the elite or to have a passing interest...

Yuo think weekend cricketers, take an interest in Ricky Ponting and the boys, its on TV all the time, its covered in the media, its online streaming off internet.. Bet they do!!
 
That bronze, silver,gold thingy has the potential to really upset and alienate many house bowlers, who will definately get their nose out of joint I reckon.. Try telling a 50 yr bloke who just rolled his first 300 game that is was only a bronze condition, thereby dismissing his once in a lifetime achievement... You may be upsetting and turning away your bread and butter customers.. Just a thought.

Isn't that why we have sports patterns at a few centres? To give the keen bowler more of a challenge... My local golf course isn't Pebble Beach, why make my local bowling centre that way...

Promoting/advertising this sport would be of better value... Did anyones centre even remotely acknowledge Belmo's achievment being first Aussie male to win PBA event in 2009. Mine didn't.... Does your centre have any information re lessons/improvement or anything re PBA tour, mine doesn't... I know I'm getting off track a little, but the ave joe bowler should (in an ideal world) be interested to see the elite or to have a passing interest...

Yuo think weekend cricketers, take an interest in Ricky Ponting and the boys, its on TV all the time, its covered in the media, its online streaming off internet.. Bet they do!!



Does your Golf course run a groove in the grass on the green
towards the hole or make the hole bigger so hacks can
get a hole in one ????????????
 
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