The ULTIMATE Tournament

T

Tangles

Hey everyone,

I've heard quite a few ideas locally recently regarding ideas for tournaments. I know at one stage we've all, as bowlers, "designed" our own tournaments which we think would be great, whether in our heads or actually getting down to looking at it on paper.

Just thought I'd start a thread to see what kinda stuff you guys have come up with - perhaps a tournament you've bowled in in the past, or perhaps one that no-one's tried yet that might work. Hopefully we should get some interesting ideas!
 
i no that my dad doesnt bowl in tournaments because, he doesnt see teh point in bowling, when carl and george, and zane are goin to be there, he likes teh mary flower tournaments, but would liek them to pay more, maybe we could have a tourny, taht is averaged resrticted, but with a good payout im sure lots of peopel would bowl, mary what ive said in this post is not in anyway offensive to you
 
most bowlers want a tournament with low or no entry fees that has a huge payout.
the other side is that a lot of the tournaments run by W A centres and state association are charging to much for the tourneys they hold . reference W A shield trials $230.00 for 19 games state makes about $120.00 profit per entry is this ripping the kids off or not? where does the extra money go ? the enry form still has them to pay $1400.00 plus if they make the team
centrs that try to do the right thing by bowlers sometimes dont get the support from the bowlers.
a W A centre tried to get a sport league going, with over $9,0000.00 prisemonie three bowlers turned up.
H
 
Luke, I welcome comments re the Twin Tour - we DO WANT it to continue forever - if your Dad was looking for his dream tournament, he should have bowled at Ipswich on the weekend....$80 entry fee - 10 games - handicap (not restricted handicap however but where do you wish the cutoff to be?) - with great prizemoney - an annual event for sure now with 69 starters. Good one Dino.

I do not wish to justify the existence of the Twin Tour but .....7 tournaments a year - paying Handicap and small Scratch payout divisions for BOTH men and women - this equates to approx. $5000 sponsorship per year in total PLUS extremely generous game charges from both AMF and private centres (not available ANYWHERE else in Oz from my enquiries), plus 'goodies' from many smaller sponsors - 10 games and this for $65........volunteer work for 7 tourns. from all the TEAM running the show!!!!!!!!

Yes, THE DREAM - we all want it ALL - however, our motto is the reality of tenpin bowling for the majority _ 'THE TWIN TOUR IS FOR BOWLERS WHO LOVE TO BOWL'.
 
I reckon a lot of tourneys should have high money prizes, low entry fees and a format where, for example, the top 6 go through to the next round after 8 games, or 10, then they play each other. The person who bowls the low game for the round is eliminated, then when there's 5 bowlers left, the same thing. Then keep goin' til' there's a winner. If their's a tie for the low game, then there should be a 10th frame playoff. The total pinfall form the first 8/10/etc. games should NOT count. I reckon this system could work. I mean, the thing about Illawarra Championships this year was that the entry fee+masters fee were higher than the first place money prize. I had a look at the year before's money prize for Open Master Boys and it was $375.00 with the shirt, trophy, etc. This year, first prize was only $100.00. I just think the prize money could have been a bit higher. :p
 
Rowey, where did you find the 1st place amount was $375 for last years Illawarra?
Also, take into consideration the following.
Automatic place in the State Open Masters. No extra singles attempts, thats worth $40-$60 already. You get a shirt, for both state and winning the championships. There another $60 odd bucks (complete guess, i don't what the shirts are actually worth :p) Right to defend your title next year means saving another $40-$60.
Nearly all the junior titles are worth $100 for 1st place. It's not great money, but automatic spots in 2 other tournies, plus shirts. These little tournaments are actually worth winning.

Later Da Cowman
 
bowling needs to start thinking outside the square and get sponsorship from outside the industry and more bowlers needs to be sponsored for tournaments to run. I am a very keen bowler that has bowled the Australian Open and Melbourne Cup for the last 4 years but I wasnt able to this year due to the expense as i have a house and newborn child. But without looking at my situation, look at someone from W.A. who wants to bowl one of the 3 tourny's in Victoria, it costs approximately:

Airfare: 600 - 700
Accomodation: 500
Food and Drink: 400-500
Travel: 150
Entry Fee: 250-300
Total:1800-2100

So even if the bowler wins the tournament over half his winnings go in costs. If this was golf, tennis or if it was america over 3/4 of the current fields would have sponsors flocking to them. So Believe that bowling in Australia needs to start thinking about what is best for the sport and the industry and start getting sponsors from outside the industry. Bowling is a great game and can promote itself, the basics just needs to be put in the rights places.

Matthew Lambrick
 
Having run some of the biggest bowling tournaments over the past 20 years, I have watched bowling tournaments go from "special events" to become to frequent,boring, ho hum events.

Here are some suggestions to make sponsors, spectators, and bowlers want go to events.

ALL tournament bowlers stop bowling in leagues especially leagues with handicaps, so the only place the top bowlers can be seen in in Tournaments. People may go back to paying bowlers compete like the Melbourne Cup used to. Become exclusive, elite bowlers not weekday league bowlers

Bring out a Norm Duke, Pete Webber to bowl in the event to get the media TV at the event,

Have the elite bowlers run bowling clinics prior to the event for young bowlers willing to pay. Supplement expenses.

Hold less but bigger events that have REAL meaning

Top bowlers being to carry themselves and behave like champions in other sports do

Them you may attract the sponsors

Good luck
 
Bell,

Having run most of the other major tournaments that you didn't run over the past 20 years [more like 25 years I'm sorry to admit - and so should you] I would agree 100% with your summary - particularly the last one - although recent performances by some of Australia's more high profile athletes [rowing and cycling spring to mind] might suggest bowlings primadonna's are mere kids in short pants by comparison.

However Bell - the most pressing question right now is - who the hell IS this bloke who will coach the Hawks in 2005?! Are they serious?

Jones
 
Jones

Sorry to mention that you run all the other tournaments

The most important part first, the Hawks new coach is there for two years until Leigh Matthews and Johnathon Brown are traded for the entire Hawks team!! then we will draft someone named Gold and our entire team will be BROWN & GOLD!!!

Now to the minor question the future of bowling, I quess bowlers have to learn that they are playing a sport that ranks with Darts, Badminton, Lacross, Fencing etc as a very minor sport in sponsors and the publics eye. You know how hard it was to create the Melbourne Cup from nothing to the heights it reached, now its just another event, one of too many.

For many years we have discussed the fact that to make bowling a high profile sport it all starts at the TOP, both Bowlers and Administrators. Both must act, DRESS and perform as elite sportspersons do take a look at CARA.

How about this idea.

A tournament players card $200 per year, no card no play. Start a players association. Use the money to help pay for a National Tournament director. Program your own tournaments find your own sponsors, work with AMF, Goldpin, independants, to promote the game. Only bowl in player association approved events.

This might be a start

Go Hawks!!






Don't bowl in a Tuesday night handicap leagues etc, Then things start to flow.
 
Bell,

Someone once wrote [can't remember who it was] ......"there is rarely such a thing as a new idea - just an old idea that's time has come"!

A players association driven by the right people with the necessary support [from the players and related commercial entities in the sport] - remaining focused on it's own agenda - completely non political - that I know has been a hobby horse of yours for years [again too many for either of us to admit to]...and a great concept it is too.

Interesting to see what type of support it gets on this forum. Perhaps someone from this web site could set up an appropriate thread to determine interest - short but precise? That would ascertain the logic of taking a second step - although tournament bowlers in Australia have a long history of saying one thing and doing another. So step one does not necessarily mean step two will follow as a natural progression.

......Matthews as coach of the Hawks, now that might just be enough to get me back to Melbourne.

Jones.
 
I guess we can expect some idiotic ideas from Hawthorn supporters, but unfortunately reality has to intrude at some stage. Tenpin bowling in Australia is a BUSINESS run by centre proprietors to make money. Scratch tournaments are, at best, merely a way to fill a weekend, and at worst cost the centre money by replacing lucrative open play with discounted tournament games.

All scratch bowlers to pull out of leagues? Brilliant - I'll do that tomorrow. Not sure if I can afford open play rates for my practice, but then maybe the obvious benefit to my local centre in me turning up to bowl in their once a year open tounament will entice them to give me cheap rates without supporting them by being a regular customer.

$200 to bowl in tournaments before you even pay an entry fee? Aussie tournaments are kept afloat NOW by people who realistically wont win, and will only cash on a good day. You want these people to pay another $200 for the privilage of donating thier money to the likes of George, Belmo & co? Good luck.

If you want to make bowling a higher profile sport, it starts with the people who already pay for your venues, advertising and promotion - the centre owners. If you can convince AMF and Goldpin that an effective, televised and well promoted tournament circuit will improve their bottom line, then you have a chance that it will happen. Otherwise, you got Buckleys.

I have put suggestions on this forum for ways that the associations and centres can work together to raise sponsorship money for the tournament scene. I have also spoken to association people, and centre staff and managers. Response is always positive, but in the end apathy takes over and no-one bothers to follow up. Bottom line, scratch tournaments are not important enough to the bottom line.

An as for swapping Brown and Matthews for the entire Hawk team - we have enough cheerleaders already, thanks, and the ones we have, have better legs.
 
Robbie,


Beautifully put, mate I guess you have explained why bowling will always be a weekend hobby for all of us and some who are better than others get to go overseas now and then


Regards
Belly
 
Bell,

Gee - I had no real grasp that bowling was a business and required the realities of commercialism to maintain momentum and/or exist - and thus investigating new concepts would automatically be a waste of time [and that targeting the premier end of the sport was an incalculable risk - the reason clearly Brunswick chose to limit it's subsidy for the sports Olympic recognition to just US$13 million - at last count]. Good thing this has been pointed out to us - no telling where a couple of dills like you and I would have let our immaginations wander to.

Thx Bob for clarifying things.

I guess it's back to the outer for us Bell.

Jones.
 
Interesting topic, when Steve Mackie was the tournament director for AMF, he did'nt mind spending $50,000 dollars it cost to put the South Pacific on pay T.V., he knew the benefit the advertising had for bowling, unfortunately the ABC T.V. coverage ceased, but that still cost AMF money.
All that coverage was priceless as advertising, the Tournament they ran in Queensland and put on between the cricket rated very well, but the T.V. types wanted first a golf show than eventually the Cricket Show instead.
Unfortunately since AMF has been owned by investment company's there seems to be no desire to promote the sport, AMF centres have been slowly dwindling away for a number of years now, so if they do finally sell to someone who cares about the sport, than that is the only way forward.
If they are sold to another investment company than get your roller blades on we may have to start Roller Bowling, we may even get into the Olympics.
willey.
 
Steve, and Stephen,
It is a shame that two people with such a long history in the sport are so convinced that it would be impossible to get the proprietors, Goldpin and AMF to support a televised tour. It would be a bigger shame if you turn out to be correct, but with the existing fragmentation within the industry that may well be the case. Just for fun though lets have a look at some options that might work.

First, a Players Association. As I said, simply sticking you hand out for $200 will simply not work. However, if a deal could be negotiated with the centre owners for a really good discount on practice games in dead time - say $2 per game between 4-6pm, when you can fire a cannon through most centres safely - even a tightwad like me would consider joining. What else - maybe try to get one of the airlines on board, not so much for cheap fares (after all, they are pretty low these days anyway) but something like an automatic baggage excess waiver would be nice. Get hold of a national motel chain for a discount when member attend tournaments, and you start to have an attractive looking package. Set an average cap on membership, like the PBA does, so that membership has to be earned, and you have created an exclusive 'club' that people will _want_ to join.
So what is in it for the centres? After all, they are 'giving something away' in the form of cheap games, and it is no good telling the AMF bean counters that it is extra income that they would not have got without the card. There has to be a return to the centres to keep the accountants happy. So, a requirement of membership should be (IMHO) that members donate some time to the local participating centre. This could take the form of a couple Saturdays a year with the juniors helping to coach (most people won't do too much damage in 2 days, some might help), bowling a couple of exhibition matches for the juniors, hold a ball surface cleaning/preparation workshop, whatever.

If the centres hop on board, and it takes off, 1,000 members at $200 each gives you $200K. That might be enough to get a couple or three tournaments televised, with a little left over to boost prizefunds. It's not much, but it is a start.

Is it possible to raise, say, $3 million to start a real televised circuit? Maybe. Sponsors, for some strange reason, like to see a return on their sponsorship dollars, and are even happier if they can measure that return. We have what, 150,000 registered TBA members across Australia? What if the TBA card was a photo-id card linked to a fly-buys type of account. Recruit 24 key national sponsors, one each from as many industries as posible. Phone companies, grocers, tyre places, whitegoods, banks, real estate agents.... whatever. Arrange a discount for TBA members on production of the TBA card. Points accumulated go towards bowling stuff - doesn't matter if it takes a million points for a free coke & fries as long as the bowlers think they are getting something for nothing. Here's the catch - whatever discount you can squeeze out of a sponsor, the bowler only gets half, and the other half goes to your tournament war chest. We need to make it more attractive for the prospective sponsors - after all most people are too apathetic to check to see who their card gets them discounts with before they go shopping, and the businesses out there know this. So, each participating centre has a display wall with the sponsor of the week (fortnight, month, whatever) showcasing their wares. Your 24 sponsors stagger rotate through all the centres, and you are now selling a wall of advertising with 150,000 people plus social bowlers walking past every week. That is a nice carrot for a business. If the average TBA member averages $2K a year spend with the advertisers, 1% of that as a kickback brings in $3 million. With the right people, you would get more. Again, what is in it for the centres?. Toss $5k-$10K back to each centre for in-house tounament promotion. Or buy 100 cars and put one up in each centre for a perfect attendance draw, to cut absenteeism. That is a nice incentive for the centres, and you still have a couple million left to hopefully fund a dozen televised tournaments on ABC. That is enough to cover the existing majors and Super Six circuit, so you have the added bonus of avoiding an industry bunfight over which events get televised.

Is it possible to do something like this? I don't know - I'm a chemist, not a salesman. To find out, someone from TBA (or AMF, or Goldpin) would have to pick up a phone, call a leading ad agency, and talk to someone. There are people out there who do this stuff for a living. Probably get it done for a retainer and a percentage of profits.

On to the Olympics. I actually believe that bowling should be in the Olympics on merit. However, the modern olympic movement is about one thing - making money for the IOC. They would put professional tiddleywinks in if they thought they could get bums on seats and a squillion dollars for the TV rights. The existing olympic sports are either in historically, drag in huge gobs of money (eg. tennis), or are fillers for existing arenas after the events that do bring in gobs of money (think synch swimming and rhythmic gymnastics). Bowling, unfortunately, has a low profile as a television sport, often requires yet another dedicated facility to be constructed in the host city, and is not conducive to mass spectator viewing (outdoor arena-style venues could help here) so it has the odds against it. For bowling to make the Olympics, it first has to make it as an attractive sport for TV and sponsors, and therein lies the difficulty. Luckily, we probably have 3 or 4 Olympics to raise the profile of Bowling before they chuck out tennis and someone else gets a go. Kudos to Brunswick for trying, but it is obviously not working, so maybe it is time for a different emphasis.

TV - everyone seems to want to televise tournaments. Why can't we (once we establish a advertising cash stream) make a Bowling Show on the lines of the fishing shows, cricket show, etc. Maybe I'm just a geek, but I find a lot of the background stuff in bowling facinating. I think a very entertaining weekly half hour show could be generated by looking at things such as how balls, pins, lanes and machines are made, the physics side of bowling, lane oiling, odd bowling records,weird centres in strange places... whatever. One of the problems that the SPORT of bowling faces is that the general level of knowledge that bowlers themselves have is abysmal, and in the general non-bowling population it is more like zero. Be nice to fix that.

Well, there are some ideas. If you have any reasons other than industry apathy as to why they won't work, fire away. Or perhaps Steve is right, and no-one gives a stuff.

BTW, Steve, who the hell is Bob? :wink:
 
Rob Buckley for Prime Minister,
I like your ideas, maybe if AMF sells to a company wishing to expand than we may see some good Ideas.
T.V. coverage is needed in this sport, Tournament bowling is more important, otherwise the game will head in the same direction as all fads.
Remember when roller blades were all the rage, every kid had a pair, but where are they now, if they had more local comps than regional comps than State than National comps the sport would be bigger, they may get into the Olympics, how sad is that.
Bowling has that in place thanks to the visionary's who started the sport in Australia, if it was left up to the likes of AMF now, we would be bowling with flashing lights on league nights, because it may generate more business.
The traditions of the sport need to be kept, I sometimes wonder when people come in to bowl and the flashing lights are on, is this going to hurt our game in the future, because many of those people came to just bowl.
willey.
 
Hey Bub - where in Bell's or my own emails on the topic does it say that we don't believe AMF or Goldpin or anyone else for that matter will support a televised tour?

Don't imagine what's there son - read the words on the page and try hard to understand the English meaning of what is there - not what you imagine is there.

Jones
 
Mr Jones,
Part of my first post:
If you can convince AMF and Goldpin that an effective, televised and well promoted tournament circuit will improve their bottom line, then you have a chance that it will happen.
Mr Bells reply was:
Beautifully put, mate I guess you have explained why bowling will always be a weekend hobby for all of us and some who are better than others get to go overseas now and then
Always be a weekend hobby? To me, that suggests that Mr Bell at least feels that the chances of a tour are not high. Perhaps you interpret his comments differently. Your reply was a little more incoherent (after all, the realities of commercial life, in my view, generally require that new ideas SHOULD be examined, not the opposite) but certainly didn't seem positive towards my comments. If I am wrong, and you do feel that it is possible to get the industry bodies to do something to help make it happen, great. In your position, with the experience you have, perhaps you could contribute your analysis of the expected cost of getting say a 10-tournament tour on television in Australia. Be nice to see something constructive amongst the sarcasm, please.
 
Hi Willey,
I feel you are being a little harsh on AMF - after all, they are helping to support the tournament scene to some degree. Perhaps not in the form that many tournament bowlers would prefer, but given the difficulties of the parent company in the US, it would have been very easy for them to justify pulling the plug on it entirely. Bowling has the runs on the board to justify being much more than just a fad, and if flashing lights and cosmic bowling can be a portal to introduce more people to the sport, then more power to it. Just not on league nights :)
The failure is in most centres where very little is done to try to turn the irregular social/cosmic bowler into a league member, and AMF are my no means alone in that regard. Social bowling seems to be going through an upswing at present, and as you said this is the 'fad' side of bowling. The centres that milk the fad into a source of new league recruits will be the ones that continue to do well when the current popularity of cosmic bowling fades.
 
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