The Best Ever ???

[Jackstar]

I have to agree with kc there,

No effence to the juniors but they are too young to be put in the best ever rank, they still have years ahead of them, u may as well put whole of tassie, by the way matt dan wasn't the captain when the boys won, thats the year they had no captain just thought i would let u know of that.

I also think Brett Riley should get a mention on everything he has done for bowling, even his bowling, but manly his coaching, all those sheild teams as well as aus teams.

just my thoughts

later
jackie

 

[Tiger]

I GIVE UP ](*,)

Originally, when this topic was started, it was designed as "Tasmania's Best Ever" - then everyone who wasn't mentioned started cracking the sooks because they weren't mentioned - that is kind of why I surrupticiously put everyone in there - so as we didn't need to bring out 40 boxes of Kleenex So ego's weren't bruised in the process. You know what bowlers are like :?

My Best Three EVER -
Men: Ashley Riley, Rodney Radcliffe, Garry Crick.
Women: Pam Pope, Carol Steele, Debbie Bowtell.
That is taken from general performances over the years.
There are an awful lot that could be considered unlucky.

I don't believe ANYONE who has not reached the age of around 30 can even be considered a true great - they can be well on the road to it - but they haven't taken the long road - yet.
Greatness is tournament wins, strong performances at major level, and LONGEVITY.

Some of the behind the scenes people are also true greats in an administration level, as Jackie said.
Brett Riley, John Dobson, Jean Foster, Joan Dobson, Elsie Robins and Eric Challenor etc are names that have been fantastic workers for the game over a 40 year period.

Just on Eric Challenor, I understand he occasionally reads these forums, I also hear that he has been in very poor health in recent times and I hope he makes a full recovery and returns the Bowl fairly soon.

TIGER :bad-word:

 

[scooter]

I agree with the recent posts. The origianl question has been strayed from, I'm am nearly .... no make that I am embarrassed to be mentioned alongside some of these names.

To be a true great, you need to not only be a consistent & outstanding performer in both your own state, but also successful both nationally & internationally if & when the opportunity presents.

My origanl post (which I qualified by stating was from my time only in bowling) had three bowlers who met all of the above.

I also felt I had to include Cricky as an 'honourable mention' and simply commented on Paul's obvious ability and 'Lefthandedness' lol

Topics like this always tend to stray & maybe bruise some ego's, however people need to remember that these are individual opinions only, and seriously most people know in their heart whether their achievements warrant being mentioned. Bowling numerous shield & rachuigs, along with some Tassie Tournament wins and maybe a few 300's makes you a very successful and competitve bowler - it does not guarantee 'passage' to hall of fame type material.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Jackstar]

Scott thats very well said I totally agree with u, people in some of the last ones just went silly, putting people on there willy nilly, fineally it is back to the question first asked.

later
jackie

 

[Tiger]

There we go - All Done
All Posts (except Athol's) conveniantly edited, to meet our great standards =D>
Are we all nice and happy and feeling all warm and fuzzy inside :-k
Good \/

Post away now :morning: with your top three.

BTW - All info on player wins came from the 1982, 1984, 1985 STTBA Yearbooks and from the Australian Tenpin Bowling Records website - designed very nicely by Mrs Jan Morton.
Any information that is incorrect is down to the Association's themselves or whoever provided incorrect information.

I'm still not seeing people filling in the blanks in regard to the "lost" info. Checking your cupboards for Tournament victory shirts, might be a worthwhile start

Anyway Merry Christmas

 

[GUS]

Remind me put "Willy Nilly" Across the A*se of my Green Pants! LOL

It takes alot more than a post on this forum to "Bruise My Ego", as Tiger put it.

It appears that bboy and androoo were the only ones that took my original post in the context that it was written. I didn't ever expect a mention in the list (as I don't deserve a mention, YET!!) and I don't need a post on a web based forum to catergorise the results that I have achieved as a Bowler, Coach, Tournament Director, and Ball Driller over the past 18 years. I know where I stand in todays current bowling environment in the 4 areas I have mentioned and as far as I am concerned, the results aren't to shabby and closer to the pointy end than most!

The post was thrown to get a reaction and obviously everyone is a little toooooo serious about the whole subject.

I do believe that Brett Kenley DESERVES a mention in the original list. Brett Dominated the days of the TCBA events and is nearly ALWAYS in the top 3 in every event he particpates. He has a K.I.S.S. Principle (Keep It Simple Stupid) type game, both Mental and Physical. Just lines up and keeps striking.

I do think it is virtually impossible to compile a list of "The Best Ever". Each bowler that has been mentioned (with the exception of Garry Crick) is a product of there own time/environment. How can you say that someone from the last 10-15 years could have been successful in the previous 10-15 to that. Or Vice Versa! You can't, Plain and Simple. Therefore, "The Best Ever" is almost impossible to come up with. The reason why Garry is the exception, is that he has been near the top (or the most consistent) for that WHOLE time and is CURRENTLY at the Top based on this years Bowler of the Year. (2 1st Placings, 3 2nd's, 2 3rd's, 1 4th, and a DNQ). You could quite easily say he is "The Best Ever" from the list of bowlers and the eras they bowled and personally believe that he is "The Best Ever".

Tiger does need to be commended for the work that he did put in, in compiling all the results. It would have taken him ages! But do feel that maybe it shouldve been compiled based on the era's the bowlers competed in.

But hey,

Thats just my opinion.

 

[Tiger]

Hi there

Gus, you've hot the nail right on the head in respect of the different era's issue.
I had a similar thought, having thought of the fact that I remember (and bowled on) Moonah Bowl before its 1985 makeover, and most of the excellent players of today wouldn't have stood a chance on that.

There was (If you can believe it) even less oil, the pin carry was, quite frankly, atrocious.
Any of course the equipment was basic, by today's standards.
And also, the release and game's of most of today's players are poles apart from the ones used by the champions of yesteryear - because that's what the condition and era was suited too.

Although my game is still largely stuck in that era #-o

Interesting to read the Average lists of the bowlers from some of the old STTBA yearbooks of the mid 80's period.
The best ones were usually around the 177-189 mark, with players like Geoff Todd, Danny Corbett, Alan Coleman, Geoff Vince, Peter Gourlay etc up in those areas.
Ted Tylutki was around a 160-165 average back then.

Also interesting to note, the amount of players playing 3-4-5-6 leagues a week back then - Doesn't happen now, does it?
When I have a little more time to do it, I'll dig out the books and hunt for some more strange and quirky info from way back then.

You would probably, in all likelihood, need to have a 1962-1983 era, when Tasmanian Bowling was an "All Moonah" affair - dominated by straight shooters, good spareshooters with suitcase type releases - and owning ONE ball.

Then a Modern Era of say 1984 onwards, where equipment started to get more advanced, the Burnie Bowl, Kingscourt Lanes (Launceston), Devonport Bowl & Mornington Tenpin all opened in a short space of time, and opened the game up in this state to a whole new range of players.
Players where a lot fitter (in some cases) releases were more powerful, more equipment was used, players became more aware of technology (and the advancements, and caretaking of such equipment).
Two completely different era's - its like comparing eggs to apples.

Apologies for my rather curt responses on here - been a rotten hair week :robot: And working seven days a week, I'm getting a bit tired and grumpy :agrue:

Anyway, Merry Christmas to you all :x-mas:

 

[scooter]

Hey Tiger,

I always enjoy reading your posts, as you seem to retain a heap of info & interesting stories from yesteryear that I don't know alot about ....... just one little thing I thought worth commenting about your previous post. You stated that alot of today's excellent players wouldn't have standed a chance on 'yesteryears' conditions ..... that may be true in some cases, but most good bowlers would just simply adapt their game to something that suits the condition being presented to them with the equipment they have! It may take a little time & effort but the 'good' players would work it out!

Just my thoughts!

 

[Tiger]

Gday Scoot

Yes, back in the years of around 1970 through till around the mid 90's the whole family was very much bowling oriented, shall we say, so that's kind of where we were lucky enough to have been able to have kept a lot of the old memorabilia, unfortunately, very few photos are around from that era, and of course, I have spent 27 of my 28 years in Moonah bowl, so I've seen plenty there over the years :wink:
As to my comment on today's best struggling on Moonah pre 1985, I think it was probably a "generalisation" in many respects.
I think the more, down and in straight player would dominate the old condition better, as circling the ball was a no-no.
Let's just say that the modern, stand left throw right style of shot of many of our younger bowlers would have caused them considerable problems - I think I was probably wrong in many respects to say that they would all struggle, as back then, spare shooting was paramount, and the thing I notice with most of our best players today is, that they are good spareshooters.

My wondering I guess is that, it was guaranteed that large scores and big strings were extremely rare (It took 26 years to record a 300, and almost as long to record a 700/3 set) one wonders what the patience factor would be like - to describe them, would be that they seemed very "dead" lanes (no pin action, ball wouldn't move much, carry was horrid)

I can think actually of a few players that would have well on them, just thinking about it.

Moonah had the Australia-wide reputation of being known as "The Graveyard" - a place where many of Australia's finest would turn up, only to leave with thier reputations in tatters.

I came across some time ago, an old peice in the old Pin Action magazine's from the mid 80's on it. Where it is now, who knows, but I'll have a bo-peep for it when I get a spare day.

TIGER

 

[Loco]

yeah guys, this is adam lucock. i'll be stuffed if i can remember my password and username its been that long. well its been longer than johhny holmes....

first order of business my all time top 3.....

1. Jim Beam.
2. Jack Daniels.
and.....
3. Jose....
Jose Cuervo.

next up: tonight is my comeback night for league up in launceston. with kace, foster and myself, should make for an interesting night. im not yet sure if im a certainty for rachuig because i have a bad feeling that uni exams are on the same time as rachuig. but i will find out.

well catch ya'll

peace out

Loco

 

[Jessy_2_Messy]

Thanks for pointing out that its you - Adam Lucock. I couldn't tell by the whole nickname thing nor the photo of yourself...... :wink:

 

[Loco]

yeah well i know how u like to look at me and stuff..... or dream about me... bwahahahaha!! :shock: :lol:

i actually put the pic in after i wrote it so nyah!

 

[androooo]

Good to see Bob Downe back

 

[Loco]

why dont u bob down on this then :shock:

heh heh i look nothing like they guy so get some new material

anyways for my first 3 games back since last years launceston masters one off comeback i had a 234, 222, 233 for a 689 series.

dont ask me what i was smoking to get those scores but there u have it.

peace out

loco

 

[Jerry8-10]

Bob Down you decide!

 

[brown beach boy]

Northener

Hey everyone just come accross this post and i must say that the best ever bowler would have to be ASHLEY for the simple fact he has done wat no other bowler has ever acheived in Tassy.
I also think Matty Burt is awsome as i have had the opportunity in being beaten by him in 93 perth in the Nationals.
Two very awsome bowlers with huge talent.

 

[Feral]

You guys are missing the point of "the best bowlers", so here is an independent judgement that will stun some of you. :wink:

"Best" means attitude, sportsmanship, encouragement of others, love of the game and its promotion, ambassador for the game, etc and then you might like to add some actual achievements on the lanes. Some have mentioned juniors as not meeting these requirements. Utter crap. Jayson Griggs has the game at heart and is maturing with every year. He is an asset to the game and sometimes bowls well. :lol: Some say you have to be over 30, won at state, national and international levels. Again utter crap.

The best bowlers to have come out of Tassie Tigerland are:

1. The 2003 ATBSO Interstate Challenge Graded team. O Simply the best beacon for tenpin you could wish for.
2. The 2003 ATBSO Open Mens Interstate Challenge team \/ Not only great bowlers but more importantly a superb group that rates closely behind 1.
3. The 2003 Junior President Shield Team. \/ =D> The sporting qualities of this team at Forest Hill was simply awesome and rated right up there with the ACT Intercentre Cup team.

PS I don't remember Norm Green having a run in the 1997 Melbourne Cup =P~ What was his barrier, jockey, colours and breeding? :roll:

Cheers guys (you owe me a shirt Ted T.) :wink:

Feral

 

[Tiger]

What's your name Feral?
I bowl in a team with Ted Tylutki in Centre League, I'll pass on your message to him :wink:

As for your definitions of greatness - you are certainly correct in summising that it would stun some people - Stunning indeed.
I agree with various parts of it, but it depends really on what criteria you'd want to have, to be included.
Its a bit like a pandora's box.

How about we just have a:
*Greatest ever individual players top ten Mens and Womens.
*Greatest ever Administrator/Volunteer top ten.
*Greatest ever Teams top ten.
*Greatest ever Ambassador for the sport of Tenpin Bowling top ten.
*Greatest ever Attitude top ten.
*Greatest ever powerful ball top ten Mens and Womens.
*Greatest ever bowler under the age of 30.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I believe this topic was started originally because of talk of a long-term project of starting up a Tasmanian Bowling Hall of Fame - something long overdue in my opinion.

Little bit like a team of the century naming really - Oooooh the contraverrrrrrrrrsy :?

 

[scooter]

Us silly Taswegians we get a bit confused sometimes.

Most of us where of the imression when asked of our greatest bowlers that GREAT = Ability, application, achievements etc etc ..... when obviously GREAT = Being a nice guy with the game at heart .... sure are a lot of great bowlers out there ..... seen as results don't count any Tom, Dick or Harry might as well nominate themselves!

 

[Loco]

ok.


I'm Great!

All Time Great.

Great Great Great.