Buying Direct from the USA
- Thread starter xcesiv
- Start date
Macka69
Member
I'm not sure but if a ball was cracked by the equipment at the centre I would be asking them to replace it first as that is not a defect of manufacturing other than bad maintenance on the centres part. The warranty is as George stated on ALL Storm balls. But if you would like to save a few dollars and By direct from the states thats fine but their can be other issues associated with this option as well.
Cheers
Lyndon
Cheers
Lyndon
GeorgeF
Hypercell = Hyperhook!
Common sense has to prevail, if you throw the ball down and it splits in half, something is seriously wrong. I've never seen this happen to a Storm ball but I have seen it happen to a Columbia ball when I was on their staff and they replaced it no questions asked.
Ball companies are not here to rip off the consumer, they are in the business of sales and most you'll find have exceptional customer service and will try and help where possible.
The good thing about buying locally is that there is a local distributor who can take care of the problem there and then, if a Storm ball cracked you'll know within 48hrs if youre covered or not and quite often have a replacement in that time, same with Columbia and their respective families.
I know there is an option to order direct from the States but in my eyes ordering from there to save $20-$30 isn't worth it. Australian distributors pour thousands into bowling in this country including tournament sponsorship, player sponsorship and centre sponsorship. Taking your money offshore jeopardises that continued sponsorship, I dont see any American retailers sponsoring events over here....
I also personally add an extra 'fee' whilst drilling balls purchased overseas, I try my best to discourage it. If you dont want to buy from my shop, no problem, just keep the money over here for our sports sake.
Ball companies are not here to rip off the consumer, they are in the business of sales and most you'll find have exceptional customer service and will try and help where possible.
The good thing about buying locally is that there is a local distributor who can take care of the problem there and then, if a Storm ball cracked you'll know within 48hrs if youre covered or not and quite often have a replacement in that time, same with Columbia and their respective families.
I know there is an option to order direct from the States but in my eyes ordering from there to save $20-$30 isn't worth it. Australian distributors pour thousands into bowling in this country including tournament sponsorship, player sponsorship and centre sponsorship. Taking your money offshore jeopardises that continued sponsorship, I dont see any American retailers sponsoring events over here....
I also personally add an extra 'fee' whilst drilling balls purchased overseas, I try my best to discourage it. If you dont want to buy from my shop, no problem, just keep the money over here for our sports sake.
wchester
Bowling Tragic
I think this practice may be illegal George.
xcesiv
Member
As i said earlier, to save anything under $50 a ball isnt worth going overseas for, but if someone can get a ball upto $100, and more, cheaper, then i can see the appeal.
Keeping the money over here is important, and so is being competitive in business... Pro shops in Australia should be supplying most equipment alot closer to what people can source gear overseas....
Keeping the money over here is important, and so is being competitive in business... Pro shops in Australia should be supplying most equipment alot closer to what people can source gear overseas....
G’Day,
This is my take on bowling ball prices. Right or wrong this is how I see it. This probably also crosses over on the price of drilling a ball as well which is a thread that is currently going along at the same time.
My take is this.
The supplier brings the ball in to Australia then sells to the pro-shop.
The pro-shop makes less per ball than the supplier does. I have been vocal on this point in other threads, in short my view is that the supplier should make the smallest margin the pro-shop make the larger margin per ball as the supplier will sell more balls than the pro-shop.
So the poor pro-shop owner makes a little profit per item, from what I am told not enough to cover the rent on the shelf space the ball takes up, then they have to throw in the drilling cost at less than one would expect to pay for a tailored fit suit to be made.
To top this off, I have heard that a lot of the Online American stores are actually ball manufacturer owned to undercut the U.S supplier and make a larger profit per item. Again a sad state for the pro-shop owner. Good for the online retail buyer looking for a bargain.
Should the pro-shop owner charge extra for drilling a ball not purchased from them, yes as they are not throwing the service in, they are just selling a service, let’s say at $50 to $75 per hours would be fair for a quality service. Plumbers charge more for making water flow downhill.
I hope I did not offend, but the comments similar to this will not be far away.
This is my take on bowling ball prices. Right or wrong this is how I see it. This probably also crosses over on the price of drilling a ball as well which is a thread that is currently going along at the same time.
My take is this.
The supplier brings the ball in to Australia then sells to the pro-shop.
The pro-shop makes less per ball than the supplier does. I have been vocal on this point in other threads, in short my view is that the supplier should make the smallest margin the pro-shop make the larger margin per ball as the supplier will sell more balls than the pro-shop.
So the poor pro-shop owner makes a little profit per item, from what I am told not enough to cover the rent on the shelf space the ball takes up, then they have to throw in the drilling cost at less than one would expect to pay for a tailored fit suit to be made.
To top this off, I have heard that a lot of the Online American stores are actually ball manufacturer owned to undercut the U.S supplier and make a larger profit per item. Again a sad state for the pro-shop owner. Good for the online retail buyer looking for a bargain.
Should the pro-shop owner charge extra for drilling a ball not purchased from them, yes as they are not throwing the service in, they are just selling a service, let’s say at $50 to $75 per hours would be fair for a quality service. Plumbers charge more for making water flow downhill.
I hope I did not offend, but the comments similar to this will not be far away.
xcesiv
Member
i kinda agree...
Wholesale should be making profit over bulk orders... the retail shop should make the most profit as they have the hard task of convinving the customer that this is theball for them.
I run my own business, and i would say i am also a wholesaler, i do sell retail, but mainly wholesale.
My wholesale price is dependant on the time i spend with my retailer. The more time the spend talking about my products they are selling the more they pay... like you said... paying for my hourly time.
Once they have the stock on there shelves, the wholesaler shouldnt be making as much as they are just order taking.
Wholesale should be making profit over bulk orders... the retail shop should make the most profit as they have the hard task of convinving the customer that this is theball for them.
I run my own business, and i would say i am also a wholesaler, i do sell retail, but mainly wholesale.
My wholesale price is dependant on the time i spend with my retailer. The more time the spend talking about my products they are selling the more they pay... like you said... paying for my hourly time.
Once they have the stock on there shelves, the wholesaler shouldnt be making as much as they are just order taking.
Casual Observer
Member
Buy it from wherever you get the best deal. That's how supply and demand works and don't let these people tell you otherwise.
If your local pro-shop wants your business then they should be competitive.
If your local pro-shop wants your business then they should be competitive.
No its not.......he worded it wrong. He offers a discount to balls that are bought locally but charges full price for others.
And we wonder why all the book stores went bust here. Local distributors have to pay gst but if you buy from OS you dont.
Pretty soon there wont be anyone left to drill balls if everyone had this attitude.
Also its much easy dealing warranty issues with your local distributors than with a company OS.
SUPPORT LOCAL
xcesiv
Member
Should the pros shops be getting better prices from the wholesalers so they can compete with the oversea buying.
I know it's a catch 22.
The more people that buy from overseas reduces sales from local shops. And price negotiations with wholesalers work on turn over of stock. But there needs to be a happy medium where the local proshop isn't that far from the imported prices
GST was mentioned. If a local proshop is buying from a local distributor then he would b
Paying gst on the original stock. This is refunded to him. He basicLly only pays gst on the profit margin on the sale.
I think most people here agree. Local is better. But it raises the question. If I can't buy something for $200 overseas. And they want $350 for it. I know they should b paying less that $200 to get it. How much is the proshop making.
Even if they buy it for the same price. $200. How much if that service worth.
I know it's a catch 22.
The more people that buy from overseas reduces sales from local shops. And price negotiations with wholesalers work on turn over of stock. But there needs to be a happy medium where the local proshop isn't that far from the imported prices
GST was mentioned. If a local proshop is buying from a local distributor then he would b
Paying gst on the original stock. This is refunded to him. He basicLly only pays gst on the profit margin on the sale.
I think most people here agree. Local is better. But it raises the question. If I can't buy something for $200 overseas. And they want $350 for it. I know they should b paying less that $200 to get it. How much is the proshop making.
Even if they buy it for the same price. $200. How much if that service worth.
RobbieB
Rodentus scientificus
Using your example, lets say a ball costs the shop here $200 and you can get it for the same price overseas. We pay GST on that $200. You don't. The proshop is selling it for $350.
Take off the drilling cost, which for a thorough and competent job should cost you $50 plus. Say 50. That leaves 280.
Slugs and lifters eat $10 or so of that at cost. Rather than discuss whether the driller should make money on those, lets add them to the ball cost. The driller is now making $70 on an item that cost him $210.
GST eats another $7 (ish) of that. Down to $63 profit. Profit margin is less than 24%, before replacing/maintaining drill bits and shop sundries, paying rent, freight, phones, stock holding overhead and replacing the occasional c0ck-up.
Food for thought.
Take off the drilling cost, which for a thorough and competent job should cost you $50 plus. Say 50. That leaves 280.
Slugs and lifters eat $10 or so of that at cost. Rather than discuss whether the driller should make money on those, lets add them to the ball cost. The driller is now making $70 on an item that cost him $210.
GST eats another $7 (ish) of that. Down to $63 profit. Profit margin is less than 24%, before replacing/maintaining drill bits and shop sundries, paying rent, freight, phones, stock holding overhead and replacing the occasional c0ck-up.
Food for thought.
Exactly...
Also here is food for thought, why is it that everyone feels they need to know what a wholesaler makes, or what a retailer makes...
I run two businesses now an both with huge over heads and yes i try and make a living just like the next person...Its NO ONES business what money anybody makes...I sell parts that you can buy cheaper at super cheap, k-mart and sometimes across the counter at even Repco if you tell them your in the trade...We offer a service and sometimes you pay more just for convenience...
These pro-shop operators have to work unusual hours also running there shops...Some of them i know work that many split shifts to fit in with other peoples work hours, some worse than if you were a chef...Its just common sense that your paying for a service and convenience...
Once again support local...Or soon your going to need to order it in over seas already drilled...like someone said earlier before too long there wont be any GOOD ball drillers around if they don't support local...
xcesiv i am sure you wouldn't like it if someone used and international forum to break down your running costs and charge rates...
xcesiv
Member
We are not asking them to break it down, but we are talking about being competitive in the market.
It was the proshop owners choice to work in this industry. It is in the proshops owners best interest to be competitive.
We are not talking a couple of bucks... sometimes people are saving 30%+.
It needs to be broken down into 2 parts. The product, and the services.
The product - The ball
The Service 1 - Helping choose the right ball
The Service 2 - Drilling and setup how the consumer wants it to work.
RobbieB mentioned all the breakdowns of setting up and drilling the ball. This is one of the services of the industry. These services are still supporting your local business and this is where you pay for what you get. the consumer will be paying for these if he buys local or o/s.
The ball is the ball. Its the same ball if you buy it from O/S or local. It is the proshop owners choice to make the choice to have small to no markup on supplying the gear or letting his customers buy elsewhere. That's just business.
This is not the only industry this kind of thing happens to. Ultimately there is a way for the consumer to get products a lot cheaper and the retailer has to find a way to meet the market if he wants his business to be successful.
It doesn't always come down to price. Buying a ball can also include services. A lot of bowlers need help to make sure they buy the right ball, this is where the retail workshop can charge more... but if someone walks in, i want this, what can you get it for me, then its an order, and make little on it... its better than making nothing... Remembering its also a prepaid order, positive cashflow services are a plus when selling products, especially in today's market... Reduced stock levels, reduced overheads for carrying stock, etc... but lets not go down this avenue... we will be here forever.
Now it shouldnt be all down to the retail operator to meet the market. It should be a team effort through the distributors and the retailer... I'm not saying they should sell the ball for the same price you can import it from overseas for as they are providing a small service of ordering and arranging delivery of the gear, but the question needs to be asked... how much is this service worth?
Im not having an attack on the proshop owners, as i know the main problem comes from the start... Manufacturers and Distributors.
I have probably missed something, and probably doesnt flow right, but i have to get back to work.
It was the proshop owners choice to work in this industry. It is in the proshops owners best interest to be competitive.
We are not talking a couple of bucks... sometimes people are saving 30%+.
It needs to be broken down into 2 parts. The product, and the services.
The product - The ball
The Service 1 - Helping choose the right ball
The Service 2 - Drilling and setup how the consumer wants it to work.
RobbieB mentioned all the breakdowns of setting up and drilling the ball. This is one of the services of the industry. These services are still supporting your local business and this is where you pay for what you get. the consumer will be paying for these if he buys local or o/s.
The ball is the ball. Its the same ball if you buy it from O/S or local. It is the proshop owners choice to make the choice to have small to no markup on supplying the gear or letting his customers buy elsewhere. That's just business.
This is not the only industry this kind of thing happens to. Ultimately there is a way for the consumer to get products a lot cheaper and the retailer has to find a way to meet the market if he wants his business to be successful.
It doesn't always come down to price. Buying a ball can also include services. A lot of bowlers need help to make sure they buy the right ball, this is where the retail workshop can charge more... but if someone walks in, i want this, what can you get it for me, then its an order, and make little on it... its better than making nothing... Remembering its also a prepaid order, positive cashflow services are a plus when selling products, especially in today's market... Reduced stock levels, reduced overheads for carrying stock, etc... but lets not go down this avenue... we will be here forever.
Now it shouldnt be all down to the retail operator to meet the market. It should be a team effort through the distributors and the retailer... I'm not saying they should sell the ball for the same price you can import it from overseas for as they are providing a small service of ordering and arranging delivery of the gear, but the question needs to be asked... how much is this service worth?
Im not having an attack on the proshop owners, as i know the main problem comes from the start... Manufacturers and Distributors.
I have probably missed something, and probably doesnt flow right, but i have to get back to work.
In post 1 you asked FOR OUR THOUGHTS ON THIS...
I am not sure that what our thoughts are even matter...Sounds to me you have made your mind up all ready,and even if you hadn't i don't think it matters what our thoughts are now...
Just buy it over seas if it means that much to you...Sounds like your have done your homework already...
I am not sure that what our thoughts are even matter...Sounds to me you have made your mind up all ready,and even if you hadn't i don't think it matters what our thoughts are now...
Just buy it over seas if it means that much to you...Sounds like your have done your homework already...
xcesiv
Member
I am genuinely curious on peoples thoughts on, and experiences in buying from overseas.
I havn't done any homework on buying overseas... Just started this discussion to get peoples thoughts on the topic. I have been told people can save a decent amount of money buying o/s and the main reply i receive on here is "support local business".
I am just replying to the comments and points that others have raised about the topic. I am not trying to offend or cause trouble, but it does seem that its a touchy subject for a lot of people on here
I havn't done any homework on buying overseas... Just started this discussion to get peoples thoughts on the topic. I have been told people can save a decent amount of money buying o/s and the main reply i receive on here is "support local business".
I am just replying to the comments and points that others have raised about the topic. I am not trying to offend or cause trouble, but it does seem that its a touchy subject for a lot of people on here
nomore4s
Member
Buying overseas to save a few bucks is fine until you have a problem with the ball or get ripped off once. Then it is going to cost you a fair bit more.
Also I'm not sure why wholesalers should be making less then the proshops as surely they are carrying more risk in this current situation by actually importing the product.
Also I'm not sure why wholesalers should be making less then the proshops as surely they are carrying more risk in this current situation by actually importing the product.
RobbieB
Rodentus scientificus
It is in the pro shop owners best interest to be profitable. If competent drillers can't make a living in the industry, eventually there won't be any. As for saving 30%, you still have to get it drilled.
If more balls start coming in from O/S, all that will happen is that the shops will increase drilling prices, or simply refuse to drill any ball not purchased from them.
xcesiv
Member
Firstly, Getting it drilled is getting it drilled. You buy an ball in Aus or O/S it still needs to be drilled and these costs need to be factored separately to the purchase of the ball.
It is smart business to offer discounts for a ball and drill package in the proshop, but in this conversion it should be separated as both ways of buying equipment results in the pro shop drilling the ball for there fee.
Secondly...Agreed, a company should be profitable. But there is a problem in the chain if a consumer can buy the same product from a retailer o/s for a lot cheaper.
Keeping the concept of buying a ball simple, the ball comes from the same manufacturer. Whether you buy from o/s or from your local proshop. The same people made the ball, Cost of making the ball change just because a ball is sold in aus.
Factors like shipping of the goods does effect the price of goods, but once again, discounts are there for regular shipping through freight companies so a retail proshop should be getting better freight prices than the end consumer buying a 1 off ball. Buying O/S or from an Aus proshop, both ways the ball was shipped to Aus.
You would also hope that the manufactures and distributors would be supporting the proshops to give better prices through the chain so the end result to the retailer is a competitive price where they remain profitable.
Maybe there is too many links in the chain?? If there is too many links in the chain, then prices get too high as everyone wants a dip. if someone along the chain puts too much margin on the product, prices escalate again along the chain and end result is a more expensive sale price in the proshop.
As kinda mentioned, lower turnover of stock will also increase prices making o/s purchases even more desirable. This is 1 of those issues where a company looses sales, but overheads stays the same or higher, so they need to cover these overheads by increasing the sales prices. its a snowball effect and isnt good for business.
GST was also mentioned before as 1 issue a retail shop has to deal with. That's only 10% of the price. That still leaves a 20%+ margin in savings.
Im not saying a proshop shouldnt make profit, and i 100% agree that the proshop should be paid for there services, but there must be an issue along the chain somewhere if the consumer can go to a retail outlet overseas and save those margins.
jimcross
Active Member
Please read thefollowing, though it has nothing to do with bowling, or bowling balls, and was written in 2002. I wrote it for a friend who had a business in Ballina, and he and his two competitors were all madly discounting. He went broke about 5 years later, and so did one other.
Only one left now, and his prices reflect that.
In the mid 1980s, I was Ops Mgr . of the Service Station Association, and tried to persuade private ( mostly lessees) Svc Stn owners to not send themselves broke by discounting their already riduculous tiny margins. They didn't, there are now almost none left. Instead we now have Woollies and Coles with Shell and Caltex, and they can do whatever they like.
People chasing the best price, from anywhere they can get it, ALWAYS, eventually cause higher permanent prices later.
ELEMENTARY !!!
• Business creates employment, but that is not its purpose. Employment is, instead, a by-product
• To remain in business, and therefore maintain employment, a business must remain profitable.
• Every employee benefit paid for by the business must be met by the price received for the goods or services produced by the business.
• If the price of the end product of the business is insufficient, the business fails, the employment is lost and there are no employee benefits.
• The product or service of every business eventually results in a purchase by an end consumer.
• The end consumer, by large majority, is an employee, or a dependant of an employee.
• Employees, therefore, pay for the cost for any benefits they receive, for if they do not, both their employment and benefits cease to exist.
• Modern marketing revolves mainly around price, by way of "discounts", "sales", "free gifts", "specials", and prizes of cars, holidays, electrical goods, etc., creating a downward pressure on prices.
• There are no free cars, holidays or anything else. They must all be paid for by the end consumer, almost always an employee.
• Consumer Groups and Government Agencies, e.g. Competition and Consumer Commission, insist that all competition which pushes down prices is good.
• Virtually every collapse of every business, ranging from the thousands of small businesses, to the few spectacular large ones (Ansett, H.I.H., One-Tel, etc.,) have at the base of their failure too low a price for their goods or services.
• This base reason is distorted and disguised by Directors in some of the larger collapses, appearing to make unseemly grabs at large sums of money, just prior to the failure, but this is not available to the many small businesses which fail. They have all competed and discounted themselves out of business.
• It is therefore a denial of both logic and common sense to assert that all competition benefits consumers and that more competition benefits them more.
• Once a point of competitive balance is passed, where downward pressure on prices results in unprofitability and business failure , then the number of competitive businesses is reduced below that which the market would support, resulting in less competition overall.
• With a constant downward pressure on prices by the 'all competition is good' advocates, combined with an upward pressure on employee entitlements, including superannuation, paid leave of all sorts, including maternity leave, etc., etc., we're fooling ourselves. There is no magic source of money to pay for benefits, gifts or prizes. It is only available through the price of goods or services.
• If you buy enough bargains, always insist on a discount, shop around until you find the lowest price and insist that you get every benefit possible from your employer, because you like to, or because you think you are 'entitled', it will be good practice for when you need to do it after you've lost your job, or when you don't have as much money because your taxes have gone up to pay for the others who have lost theirs.
• One final thought - how can we have been converted into a Nation of bargain hunters and discount chasers and at the same time been persuaded to buy water in bottles, when we can get it out of a tap?
Jim Cross - Ballina - JUNE 2002
Only one left now, and his prices reflect that.
In the mid 1980s, I was Ops Mgr . of the Service Station Association, and tried to persuade private ( mostly lessees) Svc Stn owners to not send themselves broke by discounting their already riduculous tiny margins. They didn't, there are now almost none left. Instead we now have Woollies and Coles with Shell and Caltex, and they can do whatever they like.
People chasing the best price, from anywhere they can get it, ALWAYS, eventually cause higher permanent prices later.
ELEMENTARY !!!
• Business creates employment, but that is not its purpose. Employment is, instead, a by-product
• To remain in business, and therefore maintain employment, a business must remain profitable.
• Every employee benefit paid for by the business must be met by the price received for the goods or services produced by the business.
• If the price of the end product of the business is insufficient, the business fails, the employment is lost and there are no employee benefits.
• The product or service of every business eventually results in a purchase by an end consumer.
• The end consumer, by large majority, is an employee, or a dependant of an employee.
• Employees, therefore, pay for the cost for any benefits they receive, for if they do not, both their employment and benefits cease to exist.
• Modern marketing revolves mainly around price, by way of "discounts", "sales", "free gifts", "specials", and prizes of cars, holidays, electrical goods, etc., creating a downward pressure on prices.
• There are no free cars, holidays or anything else. They must all be paid for by the end consumer, almost always an employee.
• Consumer Groups and Government Agencies, e.g. Competition and Consumer Commission, insist that all competition which pushes down prices is good.
• Virtually every collapse of every business, ranging from the thousands of small businesses, to the few spectacular large ones (Ansett, H.I.H., One-Tel, etc.,) have at the base of their failure too low a price for their goods or services.
• This base reason is distorted and disguised by Directors in some of the larger collapses, appearing to make unseemly grabs at large sums of money, just prior to the failure, but this is not available to the many small businesses which fail. They have all competed and discounted themselves out of business.
• It is therefore a denial of both logic and common sense to assert that all competition benefits consumers and that more competition benefits them more.
• Once a point of competitive balance is passed, where downward pressure on prices results in unprofitability and business failure , then the number of competitive businesses is reduced below that which the market would support, resulting in less competition overall.
• With a constant downward pressure on prices by the 'all competition is good' advocates, combined with an upward pressure on employee entitlements, including superannuation, paid leave of all sorts, including maternity leave, etc., etc., we're fooling ourselves. There is no magic source of money to pay for benefits, gifts or prizes. It is only available through the price of goods or services.
• If you buy enough bargains, always insist on a discount, shop around until you find the lowest price and insist that you get every benefit possible from your employer, because you like to, or because you think you are 'entitled', it will be good practice for when you need to do it after you've lost your job, or when you don't have as much money because your taxes have gone up to pay for the others who have lost theirs.
• One final thought - how can we have been converted into a Nation of bargain hunters and discount chasers and at the same time been persuaded to buy water in bottles, when we can get it out of a tap?
Jim Cross - Ballina - JUNE 2002
