Are we promoting Tournaments Properly?

[akdefl]

I have a question to all interstate bowlers that have bowled in the Melbourne Cup for the last 5 years.

What is it about the event that keeps you coming back?

A lot of this topic seems to revolve around the fact that entry fees are too high. Fair enough, i can understand that. Melbourne Cup has taken a bit of a beating in regards to this over the last few years, yet we still seem to be able to get at least 115-120 bowlers turn up to it.

Now if memory serves me correct, both the SA mens and womans events at the start of the year only got a combined entry list of 86 i think. So this is why i am curious about why everyone picks the Melbourne Cup to bowl in. Is it the prize structure, the fact that it is on a long weekend, the history of the event, the way it is run etc.

I guess the same goes for the Vic150. Why do they fill that up with no problems, yet even when the woman are given their own divisions and cheaper entry into some of the double ranked events with their own prize structure, they never seem to fill more than 30 entries?

This isn't a sarcastic question, it is just purely a question as to the inconsistancy with the answers that promoters gets as to why people do or don't turn up to events.

 

[xpense]

I think you will find with Vic150, it has a lot to do with the 2 divisions for the ladies to bowl.
you have scratch & graded (handicap) divisions, and bowlers choose which field they wish to bowl. (i noticed over the last couple of years, l think the graded section had more than the scratch section - this year appears to be almost equal)

please correct me if im wrong on this one

 

[xpense]

not sure with Mlebourne Cup, it has always attracted a very stong field of bowlers, and high entries.
Maybe because for a lot of years it has offered 1 in 2 payouts.
Once upon a time it also had a top 24 for matchplay, plus stepladder.
this has changed over the years, but the curretn format of top 30, 2 divisions of 15, bowl 7 games of mathcplay, then cut to top 15 bowl 7 games of matchplay, has given a lot of bowlers the feeling that they can compete, make a final, and get more for thier buck.

that is my opinon anyway.....may not be what interstaters think

 

[scooter]

da cowman ...

i think you missed gus's point.

it doesnt really matter what the format, cost, timing etc etc of the tournaments etc are, it is not going to effect the amount of bowlers who attend from tassie.

 

[da_cowman]

da cowman ...
i think you missed gus's point.
it doesnt really matter what the format, cost, timing etc etc of the tournaments etc are, it is not going to effect the amount of bowlers who attend from tassie.

Something obviously is. If it's not the Format, Cost or Timing then I'm not too sure what else it could be. I just offered a potential explanation, it may be completely wrong. But there is obviously something effecting why there are little to no tassie bowlers bowling, even in there own state. I understand your not taking a dig at me (I hope) as I'm not taking a dig at you. But there has to be a reason. That might be there are simply no Tassie bowlers. But whatever the reason is, it has to be found first and then rectified. How, depends on the reason.

Later Da Cowman!

 

[Tucker]

Just one man's opinion but on average, Taswegians are among the poorest in per capita income of all the Australian States. It's basically for financial reasons, why they don't bowl the national events.

oh yeah, plus the fact that they suck. lol

TUCK Out!

 

[GUS]

It is because of 2 reasons, the "What do I get if I dont win/cut/cash" mentallity of bowlers and the cost of Bowling an Event. It has been the same for the Last 10+ years and will continue to be the same.

We had a tournament scene many years ago which initially would get 30+ bowlers to each event, that had a sponsor who sponsored each event and it eventually folded because the same ppl were winning/cutting/cashing and the fringe bowlers who were not up to the grade did not want to donate to the prizefund and it was just easier them not to bowl anymore. It was actually said to me a few times "What do I get if I dont win. Not worth my while"

The reason bowlers do not travel to the mainland is plain and simple. The cost of getting across Bass Strait. Lets use the example of the recently cancelled Win a Spot for the AO. Great Concept, poor prizemoney. Why would you spend $50 (+ travel expenses to the centre) to bowl 8 games (which would normally cost $32 at league prac rate) and then maybe if you won, you had to spend $400+ to use the prize because it was announced so late it was going to cost you 2 arms and a leg for a return airfare. It was just not financially viable for the majority, thus the event was cancelled by AMF Senior Management with only 2 Entries, Ashley and myself. Ash is going anyway so if he won it was a bonus for him. If I won, I would've gone but I couldn't afford to pay for the whole trip. Also, Ash has only been beaten 3 times in a Open event in Tassie since June 2005 so it not a very good chance of winning.

Perfect example of "What do I get if I dont win!". Nothing! Puts a big hole in the wallet after a while and its the same for travelling to the Mainland events. It you dont cash, it costs you $500+ to bowl maybe 16 games. Thats not good for you financially after you do it a few times. Believe me, I have done it. After a while you can't do it anymore.

So to rectify the situation, the "What do I get if I dont win/cut/cash" mentallity of the bowlers has to change and empty your wallet for the enjoyment of Tournament Bowling, or we have to all become really rich all of a sudden. Somehow, I dont think either are going to happen anytime soon.

Also, just to answer "the fact that they suck". Have a good look at the Adult National Rankings. 4 Tasmanians in the top 26 (2 male/2 female) only bowling 2 or 3 events. Not bad seeing we suck so much! Think where we would be if we bowled more. Further up that list I would presume.

 

[~Mrs STORM~]

That might be there are simply no Tassie bowlers.

Yeah right mate, they got bigger leagues than we do :shock:
Perhaps its just a confidence thing, or getting the bowlers down that way up to a level where they feel as though they can compete on a national scale?

The cost of actually getting somewhere affects all bowlers, particularly the guys from WA. Airfares certainly aint cheap (and neither is fuel), and it doesnt help if you're unlucky enough to be stung with excess along the way.

 

[hamster]

Really it should be looked at across the whole board not just the RANKED events.

How well does your state do for a tournament scene?

How about your local area?

In SE Qld we are very fortunate with what we have. Twin Tour, Sport Series, and the Circuit but also from the Independant Centers( Aspley, Caboolture) with their support of their in-house tournaments.

Personally i don't know how the System works but the sport needs everyone on the same page. I feel at the moment there is too many hands in the pie. Also some Hard decisions have to be made and then supported by the bowling community.

Soccer did it with their National Comp and so far i feel its been a success.

My Ideas are in agreement with alot thats already been posted and we should also look at a grading system (ie like horse racing "Gr 1, black type etc etc").

A ? i do have is, Are the tournaments like the AO, SPC owned by anyone?

hamster

tony hamilton

 

[da_cowman]

Yeah right mate, they got bigger leagues than we do :shock:
Perhaps its just a confidence thing, or getting the bowlers down that way up to a level where they feel as though they can compete on a national scale?
The cost of actually getting somewhere affects all bowlers, particularly the guys from WA. Airfares certainly aint cheap (and neither is fuel), and it doesnt help if you're unlucky enough to be stung with excess along the way.

I didn't seriously think that it was the problem. But if they got a stronger league base then us. Then why not some small local comps. Get the ball rolling.
Less majors in the years means less decision as to which comps to bowl in. Book your flights even earlier and get them cheaper. Add to that your 2-3 tournaments a year look even stronger on the ranking list...
Like I said, I don't know the problem. But there has to be one, and once it's found there is no reason why it can't take off. Same for every state here. The Sport Series have been hugely popular in Qld and here in NSW. Why aren't we seeing more of them pop up??!!!!

Later Da Cowman!

 

[ms]

The Sport Series have been hugely popular in Qld and here in NSW. Why aren't we seeing more of them pop up??!!!!
Later Da Cowman!

i think the main reason that every state doesnt have a sport series is the fact that every state doesnt have a mary flower or alike.
the people that run the sport series' in nsw & qld work their ar$es off to make these work.
i wish we could clone mary, jase pearson and the guys from nsw and get them in every state and make these smaller tournaments happen for us bowlers who arent lucky enough to have them already.
it takes hard work and alot of persistance to make these sport series happen, i know here in sa there are alot of talkers but no walkers...
i personally would be interested to see if sa can get up a small series running at various centres reguarly but it takes alot of work and i appreciate that.
but there are other factors, for example the turnout at state championships a couple of weeks ago. i didnt compete myself as i have lost interest in the state bodies tournaments but alot of other people also didnt compete. not knowing the reasons i cant comment on why they didnt. i believe the turnout was VERY poor and even down on last years entries. what is the reason that people dont want to bowl in these things? we also had another tournament that made a return in the past month or so that had ZERO adult female bowlers nominate to bowl in it. 10 years ago, the city of adelaide masters was the zone masters to bowl in. it gave the winner automatic entry into the state masters. this tournament had prestigue and style and this year to not even have ONE adult female want to bowl in it is poor. it didnt even get the past years rachuig team male bowlers bowling either. i believe maybe one or just two actually competed. this is a very poor turnout for sa tournaments.
i know money has ALOT to do with it i know, but what makes locals NOT want to bowl in local tournaments? i cant answer that. this is why we dont have tournaments and when we do have them, they dont get supported. another example of poor local turnouts... womens adelaide cup 2007.... i was one of only 7 locals that took part in that tournament.. considering i DONT even bowl anymore.. only leaves 6 current league bowlers taking part in a NATIONAL ranked tournament.. very sad...
heres an idea... would locals AND more interstaters participate in this tournament (womens adelaide cup) if it was to be held at another centre???
just food for thought....
i would even look at making a come back if a sport series was to appear around sa.
thats all i have to say for now.. again its late and none of it probably makes sense.. sorry if thats the case...
cheers guys
martina

 

[willey]

MS, you have answered your own Questions, it's all to do with Money.

If enough Money is put up they will come.

willey.

 

[jason_doust]

You WILL NOT maintain a healthy tournament scene relying on people who have to fly in. Big numbers of locals are a must. This will increase the size of the field, which means bigger prizefund, making it more attractive to fly in. Positive feedback is a good thing.
Cheers, Robbie.

As always Robbie, you are on the money. It is local promotion that makes a tournament fly. Other ideas that work that have been mentioned include less top heavy prizefunds with longer payouts. This also promotes local entries. As does cheap "win a spot" events so long as they are promoted. These events too need to be very visible. So what can we do at the grass roots level?

There is an impediment to the long payout model and that is the TBA ranking system, which requires a $2000.00 first prize for national rankings points to apply. This could pay another couple of spots down low if it were reduced.

 

[Easy Tiger]

I've got an idea - get rid of the ranking system.

 

[scooter]

da cowman ....

wasnt having a go at you, and possibly should have explained myself better.

the reason for timing of tournaments, formats, costings etc etc wont make any difference to tassie bowlers attending - has since been alluded to by gus - but in the main, we struggle to get tournaments off the ground here, as far too many people wont back themselves in to have a crack at it ..... this is combined with many bowlers not having the finances behind them to continually back themselves - particularly if the reality is that they will not win.

if your going to spend $500-600+ to attend a national tournament you would want to have a reasonable expectation that you can at least cash if you perform to your ability. we dont have;

a) too many bowlers who could honestly say that to themselves, and

b) many who have the financial backing to regularly attend - whether they are in category 'a' or not

 

[rambo1]

I've got an idea - get rid of the ranking system.

you can't do that! this is the only reason the TBAL exists

 

[RobbieB]

Here's a thought for generating a few more paid entries in the capitals.

Most centres have a league jackpot for strikes or spares,and most people don't think twice about chucking in $1 or $2. In centres with strong leagues, why not try having a high game pot for $2, with the high game each week/fortnight/month winning a paid entry into the local scratch tourney? There are a lot of house bowlers out there shooting big games that don't bowl in the events, maybe this could get a few more in.

With the amount AMF seem to be losing on their 'win a spot' events, this would have to be a more attractive option. There is also the option to do it as a handicap pot to encourage the mid-range bowers to experience a scratch tourney.

Any AMF centre managers read on here?

Cheers, Robbie.

 

[CHIN]

Maybe the AMF centres should be running these 'Win a Spot' events as handicap events giving the mid-range bowlers some experience in there local National/Major events.

Not much point the top bowlers winning these spots as they were going to be bowling anyway. You need to target new bowlers.

The main problem with the 'Win a Spot' rolloffs is that AMF werent advertising them at all. They relied on word of mouth. Thats why we got crap numbers to the 3 S.A. Cup rolloffs.

 

[Feral]

There is an impediment to the long payout model and that is the TBA ranking system, which requires a $2000.00 first prize for national rankings points to apply. This could pay another couple of spots down low if it were reduced.

How true is this!! Well said Jason.

A glance at the rankings, at every list, tends to suggest that those near the top cash at almost all tournaments. The cost to them over a period is therefore a lot less compared to some who battle with added expenses and time off work.

Does that suggest that ranking points are somewhat a factor of ability to compete financially? I am not suggesting that those in the top 10 or so don't deserve their ranking - what I am suggesting is that there are a lot of very good bowlers out there who can't afford to compete (time and cost) who would be right up near the top in the rankings if some incentive money was there to chase. If the top payouts were less than $2000, could those at the top continue to compete financially?

I think if the payouts went down further, more locals, at least, would have a crack. I don't think less would travel. To me that is good, as the rankings would reflect a broader competitor base.

Nonetheless, "elite" tournaments without a major influx of sponsor dollars will continue to struggle. They don't attract much new blood. There lies the answer in my opinion.

In saying this, the popularity of Mary Flower's Twin Tour (and the way things are going the TotalBowling Tour Circuit also) have little if anything to do with competitor costs, even though people travel long distances to compete. They pay well down into the numbers. They are very well run. Bowlers have fun. Average bowlers feel wanted and appreciated. Bowlers feel proud to be on the same lanes as the very best. There isn't that "elitism" atmosphere. If you want to get rid of the 180 - 200 bowler, just turn up your nose at them - they won't be bitten twice!!

Little fish are sweet as the saying goes.

Just my input and opinion.

Cheers

 

[CHIN]

THIS FROM 2 YEARS AGO