Back to basics series - could we do it?
- Thread starter John_Velo
- Start date
jimcross
Active Member
Sorry, I didn't explain what I meant, as far as 'knocking down pins' was concerned. Lets forget spares, as it doesn't matter how much the ball did or didn't move, as long as the direction was right.
Strikes: what I was postulating was that the actual difference in movement of the ball, being a pancake weightblock ball, from surface preparation, was very much restricted when compared with a modern reactive. As, I believe, still one of the major factors separating a strike from a 1 or 2 pin leave from an apparently good hit, is the approach angle of the ball, as opposed to just the right contact point with the pins. Theoretically, if the ball makes contact with the 1 and 3 pins, while on the 17 board you have the potential for a textbook strike. What decides whether it strikes or not is the ANGLE it arrived at. ( and the weight of the ball - differing deflections )The potential to adjust that angle with surface preparation on a pancake weightblock plastic ball is seriously limited, therefore the scoring difference is likewise limited for people of similar ability. No???
Strikes: what I was postulating was that the actual difference in movement of the ball, being a pancake weightblock ball, from surface preparation, was very much restricted when compared with a modern reactive. As, I believe, still one of the major factors separating a strike from a 1 or 2 pin leave from an apparently good hit, is the approach angle of the ball, as opposed to just the right contact point with the pins. Theoretically, if the ball makes contact with the 1 and 3 pins, while on the 17 board you have the potential for a textbook strike. What decides whether it strikes or not is the ANGLE it arrived at. ( and the weight of the ball - differing deflections )The potential to adjust that angle with surface preparation on a pancake weightblock plastic ball is seriously limited, therefore the scoring difference is likewise limited for people of similar ability. No???
GeorgeF
Hypercell = Hyperhook!
Jim I understand what your getting at but the game has changed. Ball surface allows bowlers to create angle, thats todays game. Yes you are right about creating a good angle but surface adjustment allow bowlers to create multiple angles to strike on. Your ability to strike is greatly reduced if your surface is not correct and if you want an example of this try sanding a plastic ball to 80 grit and strike with it.... its very hard and you have to be deadly accurate. Using a more forgiving surface that is suited to the lane surface and oil your using allows bowlers to create mutiple angles in order to strike. This is why ball surface is 80% of the ball reaction in today game.
jimcross
Active Member
Your ability to strike is greatly reduced if your surface is not correct and if you want an example of this try sanding a plastic ball to 80 grit and strike with it.... its very hard and you have to be deadly accurate. --George F
George, we'll have to agree to disagree. The above is because of the energy loss suffered by the ball due to the greater friction between lane and ball with a more abrasive ball surface.
George, we'll have to agree to disagree. The above is because of the energy loss suffered by the ball due to the greater friction between lane and ball with a more abrasive ball surface.
Regardless of opinions on ball surface, both the TBA and WTBA are very clear on when the surface can be changed. Before and after a block of games. A block of games ends once a lane change is made. Therefore if we were to move every 2 games, then you could only change balls after every second game. Not at any other time, for any reason.
However, surface is key. Even with reactive covers with their, generally, stronger cores, surface still makes up 70%-80% of a bowlers ball reaction. I believe with plastic, with little to no help at all from the core, the number would only increase.
At the PBA Plastic Ball ChampionshipI believe the idea, and this was from Johnny P guest commentating on the PBA telecast, was that all the bowlers were trying to get the plastics into a roll as soon as they could. If they missed the breakpoint then the cover allowed little to no chance for recovery. Therefore it was important to get the surface of the ball at the right grit for each individual bowler to maximise their miss area in the mid lane. I believe most bowlers had one plastic at lower surface and used it predominately for their first shots, and another at a higher surface that was used for the second shot. Especially with the lower volume patterns used, the surface makes a massive difference to boards covered and ability to gain the correct entry angle from deeper spots. Which with plastic, required getting the ball rolling earlier.
Cow
However, surface is key. Even with reactive covers with their, generally, stronger cores, surface still makes up 70%-80% of a bowlers ball reaction. I believe with plastic, with little to no help at all from the core, the number would only increase.
At the PBA Plastic Ball ChampionshipI believe the idea, and this was from Johnny P guest commentating on the PBA telecast, was that all the bowlers were trying to get the plastics into a roll as soon as they could. If they missed the breakpoint then the cover allowed little to no chance for recovery. Therefore it was important to get the surface of the ball at the right grit for each individual bowler to maximise their miss area in the mid lane. I believe most bowlers had one plastic at lower surface and used it predominately for their first shots, and another at a higher surface that was used for the second shot. Especially with the lower volume patterns used, the surface makes a massive difference to boards covered and ability to gain the correct entry angle from deeper spots. Which with plastic, required getting the ball rolling earlier.
Cow
Michael Little
Active Member
Coming from a Man U supporter, you make half reasonable sense for a change lol.
Would be all for a plastic ball tournament, so if there is a sport series coming up with one, make sure we all know, might even drill up a left handed ball to give it a crack too!
Ball surface for a plastic ball tournament would be crucial and would account for how much bowlers either carry or don't. I would love to see how the Globe goes down the lane for a first ball.
G’Day All,
Ok here is a challenge for all those that are interested. I have been on the phone to the owners of Shellharbour Bowl. They operate a great little 12 lane centre just outside Shellharbour Village.
The proposal thrown at them was If I can get the numbers for a Plastic Ball Tournament would they be happy to host the day. The answer was absolutely.
As a one off the thought would be to run it similar to the GP and Sport Series currently run in NSW. Maybe one of those series would like to add this to their calendar?
The obvious questions would be timing, perhaps late in the year when there is little on or to start 2012.
We could take at most 48 bowler at 4 to a pair.
Let’s see if we can get this off the ground.
Does anybody have any ideas or suggestions?
Ok here is a challenge for all those that are interested. I have been on the phone to the owners of Shellharbour Bowl. They operate a great little 12 lane centre just outside Shellharbour Village.
The proposal thrown at them was If I can get the numbers for a Plastic Ball Tournament would they be happy to host the day. The answer was absolutely.
As a one off the thought would be to run it similar to the GP and Sport Series currently run in NSW. Maybe one of those series would like to add this to their calendar?
The obvious questions would be timing, perhaps late in the year when there is little on or to start 2012.
We could take at most 48 bowler at 4 to a pair.
Let’s see if we can get this off the ground.
Does anybody have any ideas or suggestions?
Hey Jim,
The top of the Forum has had a number of poles so other items drop pretty quickly.
But, with luck I will be able to get it off the ground or maybe have one of the sports series look at adding it early next year.
Maybe if there is a larger event on in Sydney this could be added as a mid week night event.
Let’s see what we can pull off, though I think it should be restricted to 24 bowlers 2 to a lane. I think it would be hard to get more bowlers other than those that would be happy to take a go at the olden days.
The owners of Shellharbour Bowl have been around a long time and still remember the days of the mechanic hand spraying the lanes.
The top of the Forum has had a number of poles so other items drop pretty quickly.
But, with luck I will be able to get it off the ground or maybe have one of the sports series look at adding it early next year.
Maybe if there is a larger event on in Sydney this could be added as a mid week night event.
Let’s see what we can pull off, though I think it should be restricted to 24 bowlers 2 to a lane. I think it would be hard to get more bowlers other than those that would be happy to take a go at the olden days.
The owners of Shellharbour Bowl have been around a long time and still remember the days of the mechanic hand spraying the lanes.
)
Michael Little
Active Member
Happy to have a crack at anything if organised and sorted well enough. Would be good fun.
Locking it in somewhere and just going for it is the key.
amagill
Active Member
Agreed, for the most part. There was a tourny at Campbelltown on the weekend, that appeared to be a big leveller for a lot of people, I didn't bowl in it, though I was talking to guys that did last night at league. It was a Kegel Sport Series pattern layed out (Can't remember which one exactly, think it may have been Turnpike), and after 9 games, top qualifier had a 180 ave, and normally averages 220+ in league, and has had recent success in the last 12months in some major tourny's......
200 pins under the card, and you made the top 5! So, whilst many of those bowlers were using high performance gear, it seems the pattern was a great leveller this time around.
amagill
Active Member
I think, if you wanted to go down the path of everybody using the same ball in a tourny, or tourny series, then the cost of the ball, must somehow be incorporated into the tournament fees, that way, people won't feel as though they are shelling out some hard earned $$$ for a ball, just for one tournament, or series.....
As for Centres that may support such an event, I believe, most independant proprietors would support such an event... As for an equipment supplier, that may be a little more difficult, but I wouldn't say it would be impossible, there are plenty of people in this forum who are associated with ball manufacturers/distributors, etc....
Might be worth posing the question to some of those guys...
amagill
Active Member
I agree with Mick, if the event is well organised, advertised, and a good format, that won't break the bank, I think you'll get the numbers quite easily.
I would be keen, just depends on what I have going on, whenever it is announced.
Thanks for the feedback guys,
As always it is really appreciated.
As George has said they are not plastic, I just find it hard to get the image of Polyester clothing out of my head every time I use the word. Maybe a Pancake challenge would be better suited, can’t be resin but can be rubber.
I there somewhere that I could gain a list of current events and see what I might be able to get off the ground. I understand Shellharbour is out of the way for a lot of people so the thought of maybe a late week before a tournament weekend may work.
Again, all just an idea at the moment, but let’s see what we can do.
To AMAGILL, Sunday was a tough pattern. But to be honest I blew 180 pins easy just through silly spares. I think what the pattern showed is our reliance on strikes for good averages. I still remember the amount of times it was preached to me as junior, all 8 spares is a 180 average. That would have been a top five finish on the weekend.
Again thanks for the ideas guys. Let me see what we can do.
As always it is really appreciated.
As George has said they are not plastic, I just find it hard to get the image of Polyester clothing out of my head every time I use the word. Maybe a Pancake challenge would be better suited, can’t be resin but can be rubber.
I there somewhere that I could gain a list of current events and see what I might be able to get off the ground. I understand Shellharbour is out of the way for a lot of people so the thought of maybe a late week before a tournament weekend may work.
Again, all just an idea at the moment, but let’s see what we can do.
To AMAGILL, Sunday was a tough pattern. But to be honest I blew 180 pins easy just through silly spares. I think what the pattern showed is our reliance on strikes for good averages. I still remember the amount of times it was preached to me as junior, all 8 spares is a 180 average. That would have been a top five finish on the weekend.
Again thanks for the ideas guys. Let me see what we can do.
Michael Little
Active Member
Depends on how big a tournament you wanted to run, whether it be a NSW sports tournament somewhere or on a national level, but making everyone bowl with the same ball would be a hard thing to do, especially if that said ball was only from a particular brand, say everyone had to bowl with a Storm plastic, how would the guys on track, ebonite, columbia, global, brunswick staff be able to bowl and vice versa if another ball is used.
I think in the initial infancy of such a tournament, any WTBA registered, certified plastic ball from within the last decade should be sufficient to start with.
I think in the initial infancy of such a tournament, any WTBA registered, certified plastic ball from within the last decade should be sufficient to start with.
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