Is bowling becoming or has it become a rich mans sport?!?

[left kelpie]

Is it just me, or does anybody find bowling to be an expensive sport. A league and a about 2 lots of 3 game practise sessions at your local AMf centre, and thats say $40. You can get private golf club membership, where u play pretty much anytime you want for that dough.
Like golf, bowling is one of those rare sports where u can really enjoy the idea of self improvement and competing against ones self. Its just frustrating because I want to continue improving but the lack of funds kill me.

Additional-- Why do most league bowlers only bowl once a week only?? Its not just because they all are happy with their 3 games and head home>>

I would love to get some feedback, criticism, anything from you bowlers.

See ya
LK

 

[wchester]

left kelpie
I read your post and although I agree that the cost of bowling is too high in Australia, I'd like to clarify some things you mentioned. The cost to join a private golf club is quite substantial. Membership in a private club does not mean you don't have to pay greens fees either. The annual cost for someone to play golf "pretty much anytime they want" will run into the tens of thousands of dollars annually.

If you're really serious about practicing at a fraction of the normal cost, ask your centre manager if you can arrange to bowl on instruct-o-mat.

 

[left kelpie]

Thanks for the response Wchester, oops yes having reread my original post, i should have said public courses. Perhaps I should have compared bowling to the membership of the avarage tennis or lawn bowls club rather than golf.. My mistake.

Back to bowling, I havent heard of instruc-o-mat before, sounds interesting. I will ask about that. Thank you.
I guess the "vibe" of my post was that as an intermediate bowler who is really keen and wanting to improve, i simply cant afford to practise 20-30 games a week. Even as a league/priveledge bowler and all that.
Just an idea, would it be possible for a centre to ever bring an annual membership, obviously with some restrictions in place, just as in say tennis and lawn bowl clubs???
Has this ever happened, or am I dreaming.

Additional- Even bowling a league and 6 prac games its around $40 weekly. THATS $2000 a year, every year. Well thats a fair amount of money, and take into account that in a few years I hope to get my young family into the sport. This would bring it conservatively up to around $3500 a year and to perfectly honest, there are so many other sports/activities for me and my family to spend our money on.

I would love to read your thoughts.
See ya LK

 

[TMK]

Theres two aspects to your question LK.
Social bowling....League bowling.
I cant speak for the other States, but in WA ..Rosemount Bowl is light years ahead in value for both.
Its privately run,and perhaps thats why.
League bowlers particularly enjoy tremendous benefits.
As for social bowling ,compared to any other sport,bowling must be last on the list as far as patrons getting value.
From a practical point of view..centres think that because they provide a cafeteria,pleasant surroundings ,that ,thats enough.
Technically...lanes on Friday nites and weekends are utter crap.
Juniors ,part timers ,are behind the control desk..now how sensible is that..like when is the prime league recruiting days.!!!!!(with a captured audience.)
Walk into any centre on the weekend and tell me how many staff are teaching new bowlers ... throwing gutter ball after gutter ball..in any ones language thats not a fun occassion out.So why come back.
League bowlers at Fairlanes can get free bowling vouchers after every 4 bagger..but then that doesnt happen at Superbowl,or AMF centres.
In those centres the discounts for league bowlers are below crap in % terms.
There are other Rosemounts out there in every State..perhaps as league bowlers we should all patronise them better.
Because the rest is sub standard.
I dont take friends to a bowl on weekends because it does cost an arm and a leg..and i know the lanes will be crap.
I bowled at Rosemount for 6 yrs,then wanted a change,bowled a season at Fairlanes,this year the thoughts were more mercenary,and went to Superbowl to knock off their jackpot.(which we did)But i sub at Rosemount and always stay in touch.My kids get free games on weekends,and i always make sure i buy enough at the cafeteria to cover the cost.
Next season we will back.
If centres are mecenary to me..im mercenary to them.
I dont think it serves any purpose to bitch about it cause the major centres are ingrained in their outlook at profitability..wrong as it is..and not getting better.
Like Banks..dont bitch about the fees..buy shares in the buggers.
Pick a centre where there is a win win set up...like a Rosemount..then do all your social play,practise,eat/drink,there.
Price V value..bowling has lost the plot..yes i agree LK.

 

[TMK]

Just as an add on re League bowlers,one of my biggest gripes over the years has been that if and when i have gone into practise ...regardless of lane conditions...the price is the same.
In an ideal world you would love to turn up to practise,find out the lanes havent been dressed,its crap from league or social play,the centre realises that ,then offers you 1/2 price or whatever..dream on huh..
just another nail into the value for money bit.

 

[Tiger]

Hi Y'all,
I am largely concerned that the Game has become that expensive that it is/has gotten out of the reach of the average man on the street to afford.
I'm what you would term a "NOBODY" - I like to bowl leagues and maybe the odd tournament(when I'm not working for the Football Club)and average over 200 in them and if a win comes my way then I'm very stoked.
I bowl in one league a week and sub in two others (of which I'm payed to bowl in one of those).
And from what I've been seeing and hearing in recent times there are many Junior and Senior bowlers here at Moonah who would love to bowl more leagues and Tournaments to gain valuable match practice who just don't have the capital to do this and, subsequently don't bowl.
This is major shame in my own humble opinion, when I began playing the game in the mid 1980's the lineages throughout the centres here in the deep south were very large indeed.
Those were the days when we had two centres here in Hobart (Mornington Bowl ran from 1984-1992) and Moonah was forced to pick up its act in regard to its treatment of its customers and the services upon which it provided, which has been sadly lacking in recent years.
One thing I remember from those days was the large percentage of ordinary working-class folk who played the game - people from Moonah, Glenorchy, Brigewater, Gagebrook and other lower socio-economic area were strongly represented in the bowling community here....they are no longer bowling now...and so league numbers have dropped massively as a result.
The nearest centres to us are Launceston 202kms, Devonport 304kms and Burnie 350kms so we can't just take our business elsewhere if we aren't best pleased with the situation.

It is okay to lift the profile and image of the sport to show it as a sport played by "nice young people wearing chic clothes and having lots pre-mix drinks with laser lights and thumping music and coloured pins and bowling balls in a safe, smokefree environment" and jacking the prices up as a result.
This is fine but it seems to come at a very large cost to the SPORT of Tenpin Bowling.
Social Bowlers are not loyal customers and are not the backbone of the game as the now poorly treated league player is.
Remember the AMF Star of the Week awards you would win for the Highest League Game of the Week - you would win a free game (I racked up 16 free games in 16 matches which came in handy for practice) Now you get a lousy 50c off a cup of coffee

The people in charge of running the Game will find out - to their detriment - should this trend continue.
This is only my own opinion.

"OH WE'RE FROM TIGERLAND"

"A FIGHTING FURY"

"WE'RE FROM TIGERLAND"

 

[kagg69]

Well it looks like another league here at Maitland may be folding. It started in 1984 and took up all of the 20 lanes available, even had to put your name on a waiting list to join it. Last night 2 teams pulled out leaving only 4 teams, now we have to decide what to do.
I firmly believe that the cost of bowling today is the culprit. Every year game prices go up(to cover wage rises?????)but the equipment and service stays the same.We have asked continually for the staff to recruit for the existing leagues but not 1 new bowler has been found, although their "coke" leagues or whatever gimick their running always seem to run at near capacity.
I enjoy my bowling and over the past 15 years all my family has bowled but this has really disheartened me,I still need to bowl a league for Country Challenge and will probably have to join another one.
On a happier note it is great to see parents making it possible for their kids to continue to do the sport they love, our Championships this weekend are at full capacity, we even had to add an extra squad. could this be because we kept our costs the same as last year? something to think about.

 

[left kelpie]

Thanks Tom, Southern Tiger and Kagg69 for your thoughts. It is good to think that im not alone in thinking bowling is expensive.

Tom, you raised a good point,and that would be let your feet doing the walking into other centres and look for the win win set up for yourself and the centre. Good idea!

Southern Tiger and Kagg69, yes it a shame that numbers and leagues have signifantly dropped at your centre, and that people due to financial considerations have now bailed on this sport.
I often think that the powers that be, should look at the once a week league bowler and think of him as a young tree ( I hope this makes sense, and upon reading,not across as if im like some kind of eastern/karma/ying and yang kind of guy). His/her involvement in the game may develop through bringing in other family members and friends to the game (thus small branches begin to grow from the oringal small trunk). Over time, the branches spread resulting from continued participation from the earlier bowlers, and the inroduction through family and friends, who in turn through time bring in new bowlers continuing this process. Basically the young tree has grown and has developed to full size with many,many branches, kind of like the AMWAY philosophy or something like that.
At the moment I feel like im that young tree!! Long term Im a good long term investment for a bowling centre. And there would be thousands more of guys just like me, who are in the same lifesyle/financial/recreational situation out there. If it comes down to dollars in the end, I will lose bowling, and bowling will lose me.


Additional--A friends father was a greengrocer, and he had this saying "what you lose on the peaches, you make up for on the pears". In short if bowling reduced prices significantly, numbers may swell (or may not), producing profit and a much wider number of bowlers in which to further expand.... WHat do other bowlers think regarding this statement.

What is the answer to this, I dont know.
Love to hear all your thoughts and criticisms.

See ya LK

 

[Graham]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, ">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by left kelpie:
In short if bowling reduced prices significantly, numbers may swell (or may not), producing profit and a much wider number of bowlers in which to further expand....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My personal opinion is that this would help no end .. obviously it is not going to help short term - because the game has been damaged already by the rising prices. It would be no good lowering prices and then after a year of it not working and patronage not improving saying oh well let's put the prices back up again. Obviously I don't own the bowl but I know there are a lot of associated costs involved with running a bowl and I appreciate that .. however I think it would be much better in the long run to have more bowlers coming through the doors (ie 500 bowlers a night at $4 a game, than 100 bowlers at $10 a game)

I am shielded somewhat by working in a centre that is on an ever increasing patronage, through the hard work of our managers and hardworking staff. We are experiencing an increase of around 30% on the same time last year. However after leaving my centre where there are 20+ lanes going, I walk into a bowl near my home and there is 2 lanes going and 6 staff members sitting around a table having coffee. The prices at this other centre are MORE than what we charge, however the area that this other centre is in isnt exactly the highest income area going around. Why would people go and spend $20 on 3 games of bowling at a local centre when they could go to a movie no more than 10 minutes away and pay the same and get a movie ticket, large popcorn and large drink. It sounds bad but I know what I would rather do.

Why do we have an increase in patronage ? Lots of promotion, friendly & knowledgable staff, good food. Anyone who has been there knows what our centre is like. It's a totally different atmosphere to other centres. Granted we are in a shopping centre and that's got to help, but without the other things - and a percieved VALUE FOR MONEY from the customer - there is no chance.

 

[Heather Spencer]

I have always thought bowling is a very expensive sport. My ex husband and myself spent what must be thousands of dollars on our two daughters going through Junior ranks, plus we both participated in a league once a week. I am not complsining about this becaue both my girls have made very many friends through bowling and that far outweighs the monetary value.

However, now the kids are all grown up, I bowl once a week in a league and get a great deal of fun and pleasure from it. I'm not a good bowler, not competitive, but I just love the sport and am a committed member of my team and league.

Two weeks ago I didn't attend bowling because it was the only night I could find free to have one last night with the rellies from UK who came here for Jo's wedding. I decided my priorities should be for my visitors to give them one last "girls night out". We had a great night and they couldn't speak more highly of Australia, having been to Melbourne and Northern Territory during their 4 weeks here. However, I was a little more than bemused when I got home that night at 10.40pm, only to receive a message on my voice mail from the bowl asking me why I hadn't been at bowling that night. I thought that was an imposition and to put it crudely, a "bloody cheek". How dare they question why I wasn't there. The following week I challenged the Manager of the bowl only to be told that they like to know in case I was sick, because if that were the case they would have sent me a "get well" card. What a joke, when I know of many bowlers who haven't turned up because they weren't feeling the best, yet none to my knowledge have received "Get Well" cards, myself included. So you tell me, are the bowling centres really interested in their customers or just interested in getting the max monetary wise???? If bowling wasn't so expensive then I would for sure, bowl more than three games each week in my league. I think that if they want the numbers, they have to make it more appealing price wise.

Heather S

 

[wchester]

Heather..
Before you get too angry with your centre for calling to see why you didn't bowl let me ask you a couple questions.

Did you inform your teammates that you couldn't make it to league?
What if something terrible had happened to you..wouldn't you want someone to investigate why you no longer showed up at regular social events?

In this case, give the manager some credit for actually "caring" about his league players. It's a rare occurance these days.

 

[Heather Spencer]

wchester, I really understand where you are coming from, but after questioning the Manager, I then asked the President of our league who also is in my team if anyone had told the bowl why I wasn't there, his reply to me was "Yes, I told them when they asked, that you had overseas visitors and had to give them first priority", so Yeah, the team did know why I wouldn't be there and were "cool" about it. I get so angry every week when the staff come round asking why he or she aint there, because in my case in particular, if there were a major catostrophe, my kids would sure let them know. I adore bowling and I do understand the centres have to meet a criteria with funding etc., and if I were a bowler who was "part-time" and hardly ever turned up, then sure, it would be a concern to them, but they in this centre's case sure don't appreciate the bowlers who like myself do turn up regulary. I, as I said am not that great a bowler, around 156 average, but as far as I'm concerned, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. The bowl took it upon themselves to give us a bowler in our team who is around a 60 average without even consulting the team, and that person never gets questioned why she is hardly there. I have no probs with new bowlers, but I do have a prob with a bowl who tells you they have a new bowler for your team but doesn't tell you they just can't plain bowl, full stop. I HAVE NO PROBS either with beginner bowlers, but I do have a prob with Beginner bowlers who won't listen to advice, not from me, as I am not good enough to give advice, but from others who are accretited, yet when these bowlers don't front, no eyelids are blinked. Sure they still come round week after week asking why he or she aint there, but as far as I'm aware, none of those calibre bowlers don't get phone calls. So wchester, I do have my facts right. Having said that, it still doesn't alter the fact that bowling is far too expensiove for the average person who either has a family, on one wage or in my case, on my own and on part time wages. I would love to bowl more. I am passionate about the sport and I would love to be more than a "has been who never was", but again, having said that, I am truly grateful for bowling and what I get out of it personally.

Heather S

 

[Andrew S.]

Heather does your league constitution cover vacancies? Most leagues allow a team around 3 weeks to fill a vacant spot after that its up to the centre to help out. It also seems that some of problems could be avoided with the use of subs.
Most leagues that don't use subs tend to have a fairly laid back approach to their weekly efforts. Hope you work it out, have fun, if it all becomes too much you can always come to sunny Queensland.

 

[wchester]

Heather...Given the circumstances were as you described, I'd still give the centre credit for ringing to see why you were absent. Somewhere along the chain of command, you're message must have gotten lost or forgotten. It's still nice to be looked after, even if the call was unwarrented.
As for bowling being too expensive... I agree! But I don't blame the centre owners. I blame the sad state this government has gotten us all into which is too long to get into here and now.
If the centres were making money hand over fist, I'd be among the first ones to say "give me real value for my hard earned dollar" But I fear it just isn't the case in our sport. Most bowling centres are struggling to keep afloat and if we don't show up every week, the only thing that will come of it is higher prices with no improvements in the centre. It's really a shame...
I for one remember in the not to distant past when you had to pay your league fees regardless of whether you actually bowled that week or not. Each and every league signed a contract with the bowling centre, guaranteeing the lineage. A lot less absentees back then!
Accept the call as a nice gesture and leave it at that. No use stressing over what might just be a goodwill gesture.

Wayne

 

[androooo]

One thing I will say, when comparing to bowling to golf, is yes, both are expensive, but in certain ways. Now while I have never made a state team in bowling (rolling off for the first time this year), I take it very seriously, as I did with gold for quite a few years, a sport I did happen to make state teams for 6 consecutive years. Equipment is a major cost in both sports, but in different ways. A pro quality set of golf clubs, plus bag will run you about $3000. Yes, this is expensive, but that set can last you a life time. I can speak from experience there, because the set I use is basically worn out, no chrome left on the faces, and no grooves ect, but, still very playable. Now when you compare this to bowling, is it very different?? I don't really think so. A new ball can set you back as much as $500, and more, depending of course where you buy it. Now, when you think, a serious tournament bowler may have up to 4, 5 or even more of these balls, it all adds up. And in this day and age, lets face it, the balls don't last forever. So the cost is an ongoing thing, especially if you want to be competitive.

Now another thing that is VERY different between the sports is funding for state teams. In bowling, unless you do fundrasing ect, you have to foot the bill for everything, which down here, a lot of people cannot afford. In golf, it is a very different matter. The years I made State teams, not only did we get uniforms, accomadation, air fares all paid for, but we also got $35 A DAY, just to cover things like lunch, dinner, a few beers and the like. Now what does that come down to? Government funding!! Now I will put the question out to people that know....Does bowling get ANY government funding, and if so, where does it go?


Anyway, I'm sorry if this just a heap of crap, but I thought I would just shed some light on the differences between the 2 sports, as it was brought up earlier.

 

[DJ Luko]

ok heres my 2 cents worth

excluding state bowlers and bowlers who participate in state tournis and all that who are expected to spend a lot of money on the sport of tenpin bowling

what about the bowler who just bowls once a week. just say weekly fees are $20

times that by 20 odd weeks and u have a season cost of $400 times that by two and u have $800 for the year. name another sport that costs that much for the social type league bowler.

peace out

tha DJ

 

[Tiger]

Just to qualify something the DJ just posted.
_____________________________________________
My Personal League fees for 2002:
Sanctioning Fee: - $10.00
January 23 to March 14 2002 - $262.00
Tournament fees for 2002 - $ 40.00
Total to March 17 2002 - $312.00
What will that be come December?
_____________________________________________
Also too, some leagues do have to become more pro-active in recruitment and not rely on outdated concepts for picking their leagues.
Last Year at Moonah was the DISCO LEAGUE - held on Tuesday afternoons at 12:30PM.
This league was a 5-Team, 4-man/woman competition. The stipulation was that each team MUST consist of 2-Men and 2-Women.
Consequently, every team had at least one or more vacancies.
As I bowled in the league before that one I decided to substitute in DISCO LEAGUE and upon asking for my entering Average (which was 216 at the time) these people made it patently obvious that they were far from happy with a higher than usual (at the time) average bowler playing in thier league.
I bowled twice in it for 606 and 610 then the next time I went back to play, they pulled out the old 2-Man 2-Woman excuse....
I just shrugged my shoulders and went home...
feeling a little disappointed at the way this league was being left to fall over because of silly little regulations - I would have gained nothing out of this league by way of prizes being a substitute.
Two other bowlers were also rail-roaded out of the same league for tossing 700's whilst subbing.
If the sport is to prosper it is not only the game's administrators that need to have a good long look but, also the people at ground level too.
For the Record that league is still running with it's 5-teams of 4's with large numbers of vacancies.....some people won't learn.

ON VICTORY WE THRIVE SO EAT EM ALIVE

 

[Dj bruv on da mix]

My thought's on this topic, well if u think of this u play around of golf costs say $20 plus food and drink, play in a group of say the max numbers of 4.....say u play off around 25, it will take you around 5 hours which isnt bad value, so say u bowl in a 4 man team for social or practice, it will cost you around $4 pergame, so bowl 5games at $20 and that will most likley take you around 45 min to 1hour....depends on how good you are!, so i would say that golf and bowling are on the same par!.....hehe. You can make a few more $$$$$ out of golf but.....so there's my thought for the day, and im stuffed now...lol

Take Care

Mark Foster

 

[left kelpie]

OK, most of us agree bowling is to damm expensive!! So what now!! Im stumped!
Boycott bowling centres, talk to management (would it really make any difference), bowl exclusively at privately owned and operated centres, contact the "big wigs" AMF??

IF anyone has any advice please, ill take it!

Wchester u mentioned an instruct-o-mat , basically whats that, as I havent got around to popping into my centre recently?? Is it anything similar to a sort of practise mat and netting system for golf for instance?? Or am I way off target? Also, if its at AMF basically how much will it cost/and for how long?

This week I am saving some money and im going off to the movies!!

See ya LK

 

[SCOOPS]

INSTRUCTO-MAT or SHADOW BOWLING

Is a way of practising without the pinsetters cycling

Therefore only bowling the ball down the lane with no pins

Not many centres that I know of appreciate this ebing used as it creates more impact on the tail planks and besides they receive no income and your still taking up lanes, wear & tear and most prefer with the lanes being conditioned

Personally it is the best way to practice as you concentrate solely and wholely on your technique and not influenced as such of pin reaction(which you still need to practice)

hope that helps

There was a couple of centres years ago charge for Instructo matt didnt go down very well