mathewcox1992
New Member
Hi Luke
Is there any chance that i can join the league
sorry for any inconvenience
Mat Cox
Is there any chance that i can join the league
sorry for any inconvenience
Mat Cox
elite singles league at logan city 2009
- Thread starter luko
- Start date
Tiger Bottomley
"Lord of the jungle"
After bowling tonight I was asked to post my opinion about the pattern and see if others would like to provide feedback also.
My thoughts are that for a league pattern there is to much oil and probably a bit to long as well. I watched countless people sliding the ball 60 feet or their only way to try and make the pocket was to point straight at the headpin.
While I believe this is a good pattern, though still far too easy based on people still averaging 230 to 240 pace, I honestly feel that for the majority of bowlers they simply will be incapable of any turn and will be put off.
Others my have a differing opinion which will be welcomed so a suitable condition can be laid for all. I know Logan are very keen to try and please all and make this a great league so please have your say.
My thoughts are that for a league pattern there is to much oil and probably a bit to long as well. I watched countless people sliding the ball 60 feet or their only way to try and make the pocket was to point straight at the headpin.
While I believe this is a good pattern, though still far too easy based on people still averaging 230 to 240 pace, I honestly feel that for the majority of bowlers they simply will be incapable of any turn and will be put off.
Others my have a differing opinion which will be welcomed so a suitable condition can be laid for all. I know Logan are very keen to try and please all and make this a great league so please have your say.
jamver
Whatever
I don't see a problem with the pattern. It's challenging and consistent. Those that are extremely consistent and skilled are bowling well.
Me personally, I'm currently only moving the ball 2-3 boards and shooting a tight line towards the headpin. That's how I needed to adjust with the equipment I have. I'm going to be putting a coarser surface on my ball this week and see how that works as obviously the OOB 2000 Abralon surface is not suitable for this pattern. That's fine, I learn to adjust and use the equipment I have.
It's great, I have a board, maybe board and a half target range to get good results, anything else and I get punished for it. There are no bumpers, so it's fair for everybody bowling and those with better equipment, better equipment management and better skill will get better results. The rest of us have a fantastic opportunity to learn on this/these conditions and will certainly bowl better in other easier conditions.
As I've said before, I'd love it if we could swap patters every 12 weeks of the league and have something different but still challenging and consistent rather than the typical easy house shot that most centres lay down. I'd prefer to score lower in league so that my game improves in the long term than have a pattern that made me think I was the worlds best bowler and not be able to score anywhere else.
Me personally, I'm currently only moving the ball 2-3 boards and shooting a tight line towards the headpin. That's how I needed to adjust with the equipment I have. I'm going to be putting a coarser surface on my ball this week and see how that works as obviously the OOB 2000 Abralon surface is not suitable for this pattern. That's fine, I learn to adjust and use the equipment I have.
It's great, I have a board, maybe board and a half target range to get good results, anything else and I get punished for it. There are no bumpers, so it's fair for everybody bowling and those with better equipment, better equipment management and better skill will get better results. The rest of us have a fantastic opportunity to learn on this/these conditions and will certainly bowl better in other easier conditions.
As I've said before, I'd love it if we could swap patters every 12 weeks of the league and have something different but still challenging and consistent rather than the typical easy house shot that most centres lay down. I'd prefer to score lower in league so that my game improves in the long term than have a pattern that made me think I was the worlds best bowler and not be able to score anywhere else.
AdrianS
This is the future!!!
Hopefully ill get off 7 and 8 next week and see how it plays up the high end!!! Nah its good to have to create some ball reaction and make little subtle moves over a few games. Should keep me sharp for the stuff i want to do this year and make Monday nights seem a lot easier.
Finding a middle ground between a pattern like this and the house shot wouldn't be easy though seeing this is one of the patterns thats a middle ground between house and sport conditions. Reading how all these patterns are 'supposed' to play on paper 'Broadway' looks a little easier, hopefully we'll get to use all 4 of them and find out for sure. Some people may be struggling now but give them a month and i think they will(and hopefully i will too!!) learn and improve. Rememeber hook aint everything!!
Finding a middle ground between a pattern like this and the house shot wouldn't be easy though seeing this is one of the patterns thats a middle ground between house and sport conditions. Reading how all these patterns are 'supposed' to play on paper 'Broadway' looks a little easier, hopefully we'll get to use all 4 of them and find out for sure. Some people may be struggling now but give them a month and i think they will(and hopefully i will too!!) learn and improve. Rememeber hook aint everything!!
Tiger Bottomley
"Lord of the jungle"
I am all in favour of changing the pattern every 10 to 12 weeks and think this would be a great way to keep everyone interested and hopefully allow everyone the opportunity to have a chance to play on a pattern that actually suits them.
However I think the league would need to all be agreeable.
I can't say I concur with the fact that it is harder than what we have previously played on. Some of the scores being bowled are quite frightening however I happily concede that others who do not naturally hook the ball will find it challenging.
My thoughts were that we don't have to completely dry out the edges a la Mt Gravatt but could make it shorter and flatter at least allowing those people less rotation the opportunity to hook the ball but by flattening the pattern the challenge to be able to be accurate and consistent will still be rewarded.
If we want to make this a true sport/challenge league then I’m all in favour but we should hold a meeting and be up front with everyone and see exactly how many actually want to bowl under this format. The league lost 4 people after 1 week because of the pattern and I know there are others who were feeling the same way.
However I think the league would need to all be agreeable.
I can't say I concur with the fact that it is harder than what we have previously played on. Some of the scores being bowled are quite frightening however I happily concede that others who do not naturally hook the ball will find it challenging.
My thoughts were that we don't have to completely dry out the edges a la Mt Gravatt but could make it shorter and flatter at least allowing those people less rotation the opportunity to hook the ball but by flattening the pattern the challenge to be able to be accurate and consistent will still be rewarded.
If we want to make this a true sport/challenge league then I’m all in favour but we should hold a meeting and be up front with everyone and see exactly how many actually want to bowl under this format. The league lost 4 people after 1 week because of the pattern and I know there are others who were feeling the same way.
GeorgeF
Hypercell = Hyperhook!
I think running 4 different patterns over the season is the best option, you just need to tell the bowlers and keep them informed. I'm sure everyone will appreciate that some patterns will be play easier than others. I would prefer this than bowling on the 'HOUSE' condition for 48 wks.
AdrianS
This is the future!!!
Informing people should be no trouble, just print up the stuff about the patterns from the Kegel site and tape that on the wall next to the graph. Or go to www.kegel.net and have a look for yourself
jamver
Whatever
Adrian, I think George was meaning actually informing people directly, perhaps even by having a meeting before or at the start of the night's league.
Specifically referring to Adrian's suggestions of posting them on the board next to the oil pattern chart, to those that find the condition "too hard" or can't read the chart, isn't this meant to be the "Elite Singles League"? Shouldn't people bowling in this league either be capable of that or be here because they are actively trying to learn to adjust and improve their game?
Specifically referring to Adrian's suggestions of posting them on the board next to the oil pattern chart, to those that find the condition "too hard" or can't read the chart, isn't this meant to be the "Elite Singles League"? Shouldn't people bowling in this league either be capable of that or be here because they are actively trying to learn to adjust and improve their game?
jamver
Whatever
I'm looking forward to seeing a draw (hopefully next week) and knowing how many people are actually bowling in the league and in competing against different people sometime this year. 
(to the 5 guys I bowled with the last two weeks - you all smell! )
A few questions for Luke -
I really like this competition and how it looks like it might shape up. I'm impressed by Logan City Tenpin's encouragement of this league and demonstrated willingness to improving the skills of bowlers by laying a specific published pattern.
I'm really quite nervous about the thus far demonstrated organisation abilities of the organisers of this competition.
If people are leaving because they are unhappy and are complaining about the conditions, I wonder how much of that is more due to the communication about the league?
So far, it's like I've turned up and had 2 weeks practice on a condition with which I was not previously familiar.
I'm not a mushroom, and I don't like being treated like one.
(to the 5 guys I bowled with the last two weeks - you all smell! )A few questions for Luke -
- How many competitors are officially bowling in the "Elite Singles League"? (after last night including people have officially dropped out, and based on those that have actually shown up in the first two weeks)
- Will we be setting an upper size based on this number? (say, 54 if there are >48 bowlers, for example - to avoid using lanes 1&2 if possible)
- Will we have an official draw for this for next week based on the new set maximum number of competitors? And will this draw be posted publicly and on TotalBowling so we know who we will be competing against in advance?
- Can we discuss and accept/reject the proposal for the lane conditions for the league for the year?
I really like this competition and how it looks like it might shape up. I'm impressed by Logan City Tenpin's encouragement of this league and demonstrated willingness to improving the skills of bowlers by laying a specific published pattern.
I'm really quite nervous about the thus far demonstrated organisation abilities of the organisers of this competition.
If people are leaving because they are unhappy and are complaining about the conditions, I wonder how much of that is more due to the communication about the league?
So far, it's like I've turned up and had 2 weeks practice on a condition with which I was not previously familiar.
I'm not a mushroom, and I don't like being treated like one.
I understand where Carl is coming from and agree a meeting is necessary to allow people to have their say and have an understanding on how the condition will/will not change in the future.
Saying that I must say that, I personally, am thoroughly enjoying this league as it is making me think about my bowling (something that I lack bowling on most "house" shots - thinking that is). It may seem easier to just throw a ball down not caring where in the 10-15 board spread the the ball crosses (as it will still hit the pocket), but, is that making us better bowlers?? I think not.
As a "fringe" (to bring back a beloved term from a couple of years ago) bowler I understand that my abilities on these conditions will make me score between the 160 - 180 mark with a lucky 200 game that will bring the avg up a bit. I accept that and am happier with that knowledge than to be bowling 195-210 on a condition that clearly does not show my skills or lack thereof.
Bowlers averaging 220-240 will generally bowl a similar average on any lane condition. Shows their dedication and skills in this sport.
Changing condition throughout the year is also a good idea and hopefully as stated above, maybe use all of the 4 challenge patterns throughout the year.
What I am trying to say is that bowling 200+ when you are not a 200+ bowler is not helping you. If you are now bowling 180-190 avg you are probably doing very well as it would equate to a higher avg on a house shot, so you should be happy (I am).
If less than 180 then stick with it and ask advice from the higher avg bowlers*. I always do and I learn something new all the time. You may find that you may well be hitting the 180+ avg by the end of the year and you will be a better bowler for it.
*From my experience 99% of high avg bowlers are very approachable and are happy to talk to you about the sport and give you a couple of pointers.
My $0.05
Cheers,
Rhyss.
Saying that I must say that, I personally, am thoroughly enjoying this league as it is making me think about my bowling (something that I lack bowling on most "house" shots - thinking that is). It may seem easier to just throw a ball down not caring where in the 10-15 board spread the the ball crosses (as it will still hit the pocket), but, is that making us better bowlers?? I think not.
As a "fringe" (to bring back a beloved term from a couple of years ago
) bowler I understand that my abilities on these conditions will make me score between the 160 - 180 mark with a lucky 200 game that will bring the avg up a bit. I accept that and am happier with that knowledge than to be bowling 195-210 on a condition that clearly does not show my skills or lack thereof.Bowlers averaging 220-240 will generally bowl a similar average on any lane condition. Shows their dedication and skills in this sport.
Changing condition throughout the year is also a good idea and hopefully as stated above, maybe use all of the 4 challenge patterns throughout the year.
What I am trying to say is that bowling 200+ when you are not a 200+ bowler is not helping you. If you are now bowling 180-190 avg you are probably doing very well as it would equate to a higher avg on a house shot, so you should be happy (I am).
If less than 180 then stick with it and ask advice from the higher avg bowlers*. I always do and I learn something new all the time. You may find that you may well be hitting the 180+ avg by the end of the year and you will be a better bowler for it.
*From my experience 99% of high avg bowlers are very approachable and are happy to talk to you about the sport and give you a couple of pointers.
My $0.05
Cheers,
Rhyss.
James,
'Elite singles' is a name of a league and all bowlers no matter their ability should be encouraged to bowl. Hell I admit that I am not an elite bowler so maybe I should not turn up next week also.
Carl has a point in that the condition may discourage bowlers to continue in this league, but as I see it, there a three ways you can handle this (Just my opinion and if there are other ways to handle the situation then lets hear your opinions bowlers).
You could:
1) Kowtow to the lower average and start laying a house shot. (not my preferred).
2) Tell all the lower average bowers that this is an elite league and if you can't keep up then quit (again, not my preferred).
3) Keep it as a challenge league and as my above post states help the lower average bowlers become higher average bowlers (I know, I could use some tips also! THANKS VIC!!)
and let people know that the condition is NOT a general house shot and you should NOT be ALARMED if you are not hitting your "usual" average. In the long run you may work yourself up to your usual average and by next year when you join a house condition league you may find that your average may be 20pins+ higher than your current "usual" average. (This is my preferred option).
Remember also that it has only been two weeks, there are bound to be teething problems, especially as (I believe) this is the first year that the lane conditioning is "challenging". Bowler come and go throughout the first 5 weeks or so for many reasons and it is difficult to "lock in" a draw this early in the season if the league is not contracted. Things should smooth out in the next month or so.
I do agree that Logan Central is doing a great job with this league and should be congratulated. Cheers Logan City!
Cheers,
Rhyss.
'Elite singles' is a name of a league and all bowlers no matter their ability should be encouraged to bowl. Hell I admit that I am not an elite bowler so maybe I should not turn up next week also.
Carl has a point in that the condition may discourage bowlers to continue in this league, but as I see it, there a three ways you can handle this (Just my opinion and if there are other ways to handle the situation then lets hear your opinions bowlers).
You could:
1) Kowtow to the lower average and start laying a house shot. (not my preferred).
2) Tell all the lower average bowers that this is an elite league and if you can't keep up then quit (again, not my preferred).
3) Keep it as a challenge league and as my above post states help the lower average bowlers become higher average bowlers (I know, I could use some tips also! THANKS VIC!!
)and let people know that the condition is NOT a general house shot and you should NOT be ALARMED if you are not hitting your "usual" average. In the long run you may work yourself up to your usual average and by next year when you join a house condition league you may find that your average may be 20pins+ higher than your current "usual" average. (This is my preferred option).
Remember also that it has only been two weeks, there are bound to be teething problems, especially as (I believe) this is the first year that the lane conditioning is "challenging". Bowler come and go throughout the first 5 weeks or so for many reasons and it is difficult to "lock in" a draw this early in the season if the league is not contracted. Things should smooth out in the next month or so.
I do agree that Logan Central is doing a great job with this league and should be congratulated. Cheers Logan City!
Cheers,
Rhyss.
jamver
Whatever
Just to clarify a potential misunderstanding (by Rhyss).
My statement above is not meant to exclude people on ability, but rather suggest that if they are choosing to bowl in this league that they are doing so to improve their game through experience and learning new skills (lane reading, chart reading, adjusting to different ball reactions etc).
Either that, or they are Elite competitors the likes of which the rest of us aspire to become. (those that are still bowling 250+ averages on these conditions, for example)
cheers,
James
jamver
Whatever
Rhyss! I think this is exactly the type of place for a bowler such as yourself! :surrender:
See my previous post!
3) Keep it as a challenge league and as my above post states help the lower average bowlers become higher average bowlers (I know, I could use some tips also! THANKS VIC!!
and let people know that the condition is NOT a general house shot and you should NOT be ALARMED if you are not hitting your "usual" average.
I definitely agree with this way of going forward, but that really relies on the organisers communicating, which was the crux of my previous long post. Some people may be disappointed in how they have performed in the past couple of weeks in part due to the challenge condition layed down, but also due to the communication of that condition and setting expectations for those bowlers.
A funny thing happened on the way to the pub.... I'm actually bowling 15-20 pins higher average at Logan on this condition than I did last year at ... Richlands...
There are teething problems and problems due to lack of organisation. I currently believe most of the problems so far are more due to the latter as the former are easy to anticipate (happen year in/year out) and can be accommodated. Again, better communication.
I hope things do smooth out in the next few weeks... I really hope the next 2 weeks.
What's a contracted league?
Hear! Hear!
cheers,
James
James,
All is good, like my posts in the past, what is said on a forum is not always what is meant. Hard to get across what you want to say exactly via the written word.
Was not having a go at you nor anyone else just wanted to put my $0.05 across on the subject is all.
P.s. Not hard to get a better ave than last year at Richlands. A consistent oiling condition over a two week period. WOW! Didn't think it possible! In Richlands defense though, they have done some major rework on the machine and I have bowled (practice) a few times there over the past three weeks and it has been a dream to bowl on each time. Good work!
P.S.s A contract league is one in which you sign up (contract) to the league for the year, if you leave you are responsible to either pay all fees to the end of the year or find another bowler to take your place. Rare nowadays.
All is good, like my posts in the past, what is said on a forum is not always what is meant. Hard to get across what you want to say exactly via the written word.
Was not having a go at you nor anyone else just wanted to put my $0.05 across on the subject is all.
P.s. Not hard to get a better ave than last year at Richlands
. A consistent oiling condition over a two week period. WOW! Didn't think it possible! In Richlands defense though, they have done some major rework on the machine and I have bowled (practice) a few times there over the past three weeks and it has been a dream to bowl on each time. Good work!P.S.s A contract league is one in which you sign up (contract) to the league for the year, if you leave you are responsible to either pay all fees to the end of the year or find another bowler to take your place. Rare nowadays.
AdrianS
This is the future!!!
OK, looks like its party time for the next 12 weeks. Now i think this makes it 'hard' in a different way. Now its not a case of keep it in play, it's time to get that back row out if you want some points!!!
So in my opinion, you cant give someone broccolii to eat for too may days in a row, sometimes you have to feed them some ice cream!!!
So in my opinion, you cant give someone broccolii to eat for too may days in a row, sometimes you have to feed them some ice cream!!!
AdrianS
This is the future!!!
Gutter rat
Member
They have had site problems should be fixed soon
