I. T. Interchangeable Thumbs
- Thread starter WAC4504
- Start date
tonx
New Member
I loathe interchangable thumbs.
The less novelty variables associated with a competitive bowler, the better. While the Vise IT is daylights ahead of any other interchangable thumb on the market as far as consistency and durability, I would rather suggest the bowler take their gear to a competent ball driller with a good drill press to cut thumbs rather than push the bowler to an un-needed expense that has a chance of breaking mid tournament or mid league session.
Can you imagine having the front 9 strikes, and the thumb failing? Why on earth give yourself that variable?
There are other proshops in my area that push these interchangable thumbs onto their customers, through either generating more profit, or pure incompetency to consistently drill/oval/bevel their customers thumbs. The novelty quickly wears off though, especially when the proshop fails to make the thumb flush with the ball consistently from ball to ball, or when the worst case scenario comes along and the bowler damages themselves due to a failing grip. Seen it before, and will see it again. I've also seen them installed backwards, at the wrong screw in angle, with the wrong glue.
The only real use for a product like the IT or the Turbo Switch grips is for ball Demo days. Some people believe that swelling/shrinking thumbs are the ideal candidate for IT, but I would rather educate bowlers how to use fitting tape rather than waste their money.
Until they make an interchangable thumb that is the same costing as a thumb slug, and it is locked in so strong that it can't possibly be removed even with a poor install, vote NO on the interchangable thumb ballot!
p.s. I have in stock every interchangable thumb on the market, so don't think that is a reason against it. I can install any of these into a ball, and its easier/quicker for me to do this than cut a slug from scratch. I can also install every thumb flush and at the correct angle from ball to ball. I would still rather drill the thumb properly than waste my customers money and risk damaging their hands.
The less novelty variables associated with a competitive bowler, the better. While the Vise IT is daylights ahead of any other interchangable thumb on the market as far as consistency and durability, I would rather suggest the bowler take their gear to a competent ball driller with a good drill press to cut thumbs rather than push the bowler to an un-needed expense that has a chance of breaking mid tournament or mid league session.
Can you imagine having the front 9 strikes, and the thumb failing? Why on earth give yourself that variable?
There are other proshops in my area that push these interchangable thumbs onto their customers, through either generating more profit, or pure incompetency to consistently drill/oval/bevel their customers thumbs. The novelty quickly wears off though, especially when the proshop fails to make the thumb flush with the ball consistently from ball to ball, or when the worst case scenario comes along and the bowler damages themselves due to a failing grip. Seen it before, and will see it again. I've also seen them installed backwards, at the wrong screw in angle, with the wrong glue.
The only real use for a product like the IT or the Turbo Switch grips is for ball Demo days. Some people believe that swelling/shrinking thumbs are the ideal candidate for IT, but I would rather educate bowlers how to use fitting tape rather than waste their money.
Until they make an interchangable thumb that is the same costing as a thumb slug, and it is locked in so strong that it can't possibly be removed even with a poor install, vote NO on the interchangable thumb ballot!
p.s. I have in stock every interchangable thumb on the market, so don't think that is a reason against it. I can install any of these into a ball, and its easier/quicker for me to do this than cut a slug from scratch. I can also install every thumb flush and at the correct angle from ball to ball. I would still rather drill the thumb properly than waste my customers money and risk damaging their hands.
jimcross
Active Member
With so much emphasis on positioning the whole drilling to suit or vary the playing characteristics of the ball, have we lost some of the skill to fit the ball to the hand? I mean, spans, hole size / shape, left and right side, forward and reverse pitches ? Serious question. I haven't drilled a ball for about 15 years, and I would need a lot of learning to drill a modern ball to best serve the individual bowler, but it sure would fit their hand , and release properly.
Tonx
As the Australian Distributor of the Griploc Interchangeable Thumb Insert you do not have every Interchangeable Thumb unless you are importing them from International Domestic Distributors, as you have never even enquired as to the availability of their supply in Australia and we have been the sole supplier in Australia since 2004
Carol Hill
Animals Distribution
www.griplocaus.com
tonx
New Member
Carol,
While I have never contacted you regarding the "Grip-loc" system, I did receive a few sample (or left over if you will) products from a proshop I purchased some stock off as they were closing down. At least I believe I have. Are your products (from memory) the pre-drilled interchangable inners that lock in with 2 fixed tabs in the outter sleeve?
Without intending to deliberately belittle the product that you provide, I am less than impressed with ANY predrilled round holes for thumbs. It is extremely rare to find a bowler with a perfectly round thumb, be it an interchangable thumb or any of the other various predrilled inserts/moulds. (Vise, Donkey System, etc)
Again, I back a correctly drilled and bevelled thumb (slug or not) done by a good driller over ANY other option on the market, and will continue to do so until something comes along that is better (anyone making magic gel thumbs that mould perfectly to a bowlers exact thumb and comply to the rules of the game??????)
Once a thumb is cut correctly, I have no issues in proshops using moulds to replicate a proper fitting thumb if they choose to do so, but as far as I'm concerned, anything that can be removed with a twist of the insert will never be as good as the real (unremovable) thing.
I'd be open to the industry changing my mind, but it is going to have to be an impressive system for me to promote it in my shops!
Thanks for your statement
On edit: I would have no issues with your system for people for "Demo Days" where a bowler is only needing to throw a rough fit to get a general idea on ball reaction.
While I have never contacted you regarding the "Grip-loc" system, I did receive a few sample (or left over if you will) products from a proshop I purchased some stock off as they were closing down. At least I believe I have. Are your products (from memory) the pre-drilled interchangable inners that lock in with 2 fixed tabs in the outter sleeve?
Without intending to deliberately belittle the product that you provide, I am less than impressed with ANY predrilled round holes for thumbs. It is extremely rare to find a bowler with a perfectly round thumb, be it an interchangable thumb or any of the other various predrilled inserts/moulds. (Vise, Donkey System, etc)
Again, I back a correctly drilled and bevelled thumb (slug or not) done by a good driller over ANY other option on the market, and will continue to do so until something comes along that is better (anyone making magic gel thumbs that mould perfectly to a bowlers exact thumb and comply to the rules of the game??????)
Once a thumb is cut correctly, I have no issues in proshops using moulds to replicate a proper fitting thumb if they choose to do so, but as far as I'm concerned, anything that can be removed with a twist of the insert will never be as good as the real (unremovable) thing.
I'd be open to the industry changing my mind, but it is going to have to be an impressive system for me to promote it in my shops!
Thanks for your statement
On edit: I would have no issues with your system for people for "Demo Days" where a bowler is only needing to throw a rough fit to get a general idea on ball reaction.
WAC4504
State Side
Thanks Tonx, I agree about the cost, and I always have my doubts about durability as well. I think it's a good idea to a degree, but I think I'll wait a while and see hoe it works out. I can just picture my thumb fallen out and being ground in the machine with no back up. Thanks again
Yes - Griploc do lock in place with the tabs on the outer sleeve
...with the samples you received from the closing proshop did you also receive the instruction sheet that goes out with the product when a driller / proshop orders them in for the first time. Correct placement of the outer is important - positioning of the tabs/ hole size and depth - otherwise 'inners' don't fit correctly, leading to unhappy result.
Quote.. Without intending to deliberately belittle the product that you provide, I am less than impressed with ANY predrilled round holes for thumbs. It is extremely rare to find a bowler with a perfectly round thumb, be it an interchangable thumb or any of the other various predrilled inserts/moulds.quote
once fitted, Inners can be manually shaped to fit bowlers thumb exactly the same way as you would a normal slug.
More than happy to send you some information
cheers
Carol
Even if you are using a normal thumb slug they can still break or come out of the ball, i have seen this on a few occasions. I have also had it happen to me personnally as well during a During Masters event many years ago that i had just found the right ball and was making a good progress and one shot ended up half slug in the ball and half on my thumb. Could find another ball that felt the same.
I personally am using the Griplock Interchangables, and personally i like them. i have not had one of them break on me in 2-3 years using them.
I had tried Vise interchangles before that and managed to break at least half a dozen in year. Even when they improved the tabs on inner slug to make them stronger. Before switching to interchangables i had also tried various ball drillers and could not get a consistant feel from one ball to another.
I think in the end its a bowlers choice. If you are interested in interchangables try it one or two balls, to see if you like it.
At the end of the day its your choice.
Troyza
Flash
That still sounds like the pitch of the hole could be wrong though? If I'm correct in saying, these I.T's have a predrilled round hole, and simply positioning them in the correct spot (from what I've been lead to believe) doesn't mean it is going to fit the bowlers hand perfectly, or even comfortably. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
Back in Grafton a few years ago, a friend of mine had some I.T's. It wasn't long before the slug would just stay on his thumb, & down the ball would go... I've never been too confident with the idea since then.
tonx
New Member
Carol,
Thanks for the reply. The ones I have installed of the griploc have all been flush, and if anyone "screws" up (pardon the pun) your system, they shouldn't ever drill another bowling ball in their life.
Andrew,
The "improved inner tabs" was applicable to the TURBO system. The Vise one doesn't use tabs, instead using a molley installed in the bottom of the hole, and a screw in attachment added to the bottom of Vise slugs. I too have seen exactly what you have seen, in both the older models, and the "new and improved".
I'll try to get a video up shortly of how to ensure a normal slug will require exceptional circumstances before it will fail. There are little things that can be done that take bugger all time, but improve the install of a thumb slug. As far as I know, I have never had an original installed thumb slug fail in any of my customers balls.
There has been 2 instances of a slug comming out with my installs, but both were replacing the old (same sized) slug to do a cheaper job on a second hand ball rather than plugging the hole. This usually leaves small gaps between the ball and slug which grow bigger with changes in humidity and heat. I never suggest this type of install, and warn against it, but the customer is always right.... right???
Drilling approximately 1000 balls a year and never having a fail/breakage on an original install is a pretty good success rate.
Carol (again),
Shoot some info to me. Depending on cost, I may start to use your system for my 900 Global/AMF300 demo days. My email is tonx@absolutebowling.com
Thanks for the reply. The ones I have installed of the griploc have all been flush, and if anyone "screws" up (pardon the pun) your system, they shouldn't ever drill another bowling ball in their life.
Andrew,
The "improved inner tabs" was applicable to the TURBO system. The Vise one doesn't use tabs, instead using a molley installed in the bottom of the hole, and a screw in attachment added to the bottom of Vise slugs. I too have seen exactly what you have seen, in both the older models, and the "new and improved".
I'll try to get a video up shortly of how to ensure a normal slug will require exceptional circumstances before it will fail. There are little things that can be done that take bugger all time, but improve the install of a thumb slug. As far as I know, I have never had an original installed thumb slug fail in any of my customers balls.
There has been 2 instances of a slug comming out with my installs, but both were replacing the old (same sized) slug to do a cheaper job on a second hand ball rather than plugging the hole. This usually leaves small gaps between the ball and slug which grow bigger with changes in humidity and heat. I never suggest this type of install, and warn against it, but the customer is always right.... right???
Drilling approximately 1000 balls a year and never having a fail/breakage on an original install is a pretty good success rate.
Carol (again),
Shoot some info to me. Depending on cost, I may start to use your system for my 900 Global/AMF300 demo days. My email is tonx@absolutebowling.com
RobbieB
Rodentus scientificus
I'll try to get a video up shortly of how to ensure a normal slug will require exceptional circumstances before it will fail. There are little things that can be done that take bugger all time, but improve the install of a thumb slug. As far as I know, I have never had an original installed thumb slug fail in any of my customers balls.
There has been 2 instances of a slug comming out with my installs, but both were replacing the old (same sized) slug to do a cheaper job on a second hand ball rather than plugging the hole. This usually leaves small gaps between the ball and slug which grow bigger with changes in humidity and heat. I never suggest this type of install, and warn against it, but the customer is always right.... right???
Tonx,
I use 5 minute araldite for gluing in slugs. I know most use super glue of one variety or another, but I don't trust it. In any case, the scenario above (replacing one slug with another) is exactly why every proshop should have a tube of quick set epoxy - it gap fills. Problem solved, and the customer can actually BE right.
Robbie, if you use a Good Quality Super Glue, like they sell in Bearing Distributors e.g; CBC Bearings, you will find you have a more secure product, you may pay $20 or more but the bottles hold a lot of glue. The stuff they sell in Supermarkets or Cheap shops is Crap, I know I own a Cheap Shop.
I do believe you should have a good quality "clear" araldite to repair those chips that can happen, super glue can also repair chips and is a stronger bond.
willey
I do believe you should have a good quality "clear" araldite to repair those chips that can happen, super glue can also repair chips and is a stronger bond.
willey
RobbieB
Rodentus scientificus
Super glue is moisture cured, non gap filling and is both brittle and cures harder than bowling ball materials. In my opinion, super glue increases the chances of cracking around thumb slugs, as well as the chances of them falling out.
The don't _ever_ fall out if they are epoxied in, and in my experience it virtually eliminates cracking around the slug. It also lubricates the slug while hammering it in. All of this is worth an extra five minutes wait to drill a ball.
Just my 2c worth.
The don't _ever_ fall out if they are epoxied in, and in my experience it virtually eliminates cracking around the slug. It also lubricates the slug while hammering it in. All of this is worth an extra five minutes wait to drill a ball.
Just my 2c worth.
tonx
New Member
For gaps and chips, I use the clear wizard instant repair stuff with the spray on catalyst.
I'd still a customer give me 24 hours to replace a slug with the same size and just plug the hole. I used to use araldite to install slugs, but sheer volume of ball drilling put a stop to that. The only risk of cracking around the thumb is when people use either cheap glue, or glue on the actual coverstock.
I still use araldite for mould installs, as there is no taper into the hole and I've seen way too many moulds drop into the ball. Drilling to the exact depth does eliminate mould drops, but even going 0.010 too deep leaves a risk of a drop without araldite.
I use Vise slugs with a cone style taper which sits flush with the tapered bottom of a drilled hole. THEN applied to the filler material, small amounts of glue are pushed down into the bottom tapered part which gives a very very strong bond, and eliminates standard cracking issues associated with poor slug installs.
I like your attention to detail Mr Asparagus, but try and do 50 balls a week and tell me that 5 minutes per ball doesn't add up
I'd still a customer give me 24 hours to replace a slug with the same size and just plug the hole. I used to use araldite to install slugs, but sheer volume of ball drilling put a stop to that. The only risk of cracking around the thumb is when people use either cheap glue, or glue on the actual coverstock.
I still use araldite for mould installs, as there is no taper into the hole and I've seen way too many moulds drop into the ball. Drilling to the exact depth does eliminate mould drops, but even going 0.010 too deep leaves a risk of a drop without araldite.
I use Vise slugs with a cone style taper which sits flush with the tapered bottom of a drilled hole. THEN applied to the filler material, small amounts of glue are pushed down into the bottom tapered part which gives a very very strong bond, and eliminates standard cracking issues associated with poor slug installs.
I like your attention to detail Mr Asparagus, but try and do 50 balls a week and tell me that 5 minutes per ball doesn't add up
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