The Lane Condition of TBA Senior National Tournament

[JP]

4 of 2009 year senior tournaments are finished, I think the only thing can be improved is the lane condition. Here are some issues I found in the last 4 events.


1) The oil pattern was changed during the tournament
At one event. 1st day, 2.5% players finished with 200+ avg. 2nd day, it increase to 27.5%.

2) The condition was too easy, ot too difficulty
One event had 10:1 oil ratio, end up with 62.3% players finished with 200+ avg. See 1) for the difficulty one

3) The oil pattern released was not true
At one event, I was told by TD, the condition was put down which is 2 feets longer than the pattern graph published.

4) Not be able to prvide the pattern info.

I think TBA should setup rules and standards for the lane contions of TBA sanctioned national tournament, such as: oil ratio, ... to improve the quality of tournament.

Regards,
JP Li

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

Good evening JP, I think you really need to sit down with a few of us who had these kind of discussions over the past couple of years, if you open the Pandora's box and let TBA set the seniors oil patterns instead of self regulating via communication between the organisers and the centres, what we would end up with is a bastardised FIQ pattern, it has been shown very recently how out of touch TBA is with senior bowling, and hopefully we have put it back on track from Sunshine.
I think everyone would rather play on a pattern that gives the OPPORTUNITY for everyone to shoot over the card, not saying make it easy as you still have to bowl the ball and have technique, but it is better to have a tournament with a 200 ave than a 170 ave, it then comes down to the more subtle side of bowling in hand changes etc.
At our level, and I will ask all of you knockers to really think before having a go, we are there for the FUN in bowling, and still have exhibit a very competitive streak.
Most of us have bashed through the Rachuig, youth etc where they throw sports series, long oil short oil, mixed with a large degree of frustration and then asked us to spend $1000's travelling the country to bowl on that stuff. I for one do not want to go back to that, look at last years Nationals, TBA wanted to have the seniors bowl on the same short/long oil as the youth's and look at the negative stuff that came up then..
Nothing against those who wish to have that kind of a challenge, but if you do, go bowl open tournaments.
I do agree that people holding these tournaments should do their research a little better and post exactly what will be there, as those of us who have to pay a lot of money to travel to these tournaments, including excess baggage, can easily be given false information and thus ball selection becomes incorrect, and it has happened.
So if that area is cleared up then I feel everything else is pretty good, except there should be tournament entry discounts for those of us who have to travel from Perth EVERY TIME!! come on someone how about letting the furthest interstaters bowl for 1/2 price we only bowl 1/2 as good as you lot anyway!!

 

[Anthony L]

Hi Paul "can carry"- here is a tissue for you, sob sob, if you choose to live on the other side of the world, well that is your problem...hahaha - but l agree on everything else you have mentioned in your thread see you soon in a city that is NOT that far away from you... cheers Tony

 

[Animal]

..........So if that area is cleared up then I feel everything else is pretty good, except there should be tournament entry discounts for those of us who have to travel from Perth EVERY TIME!! come on someone how about letting the furthest interstaters bowl for 1/2 price we only bowl 1/2 as good as you lot anyway!![/QUOTE]


hi Paul,
does that then mean you would only get 1/2 the prize money too...........
just getting forms ready for Hammer QLD Seniors Classic 2010 so want to make sure we put the right phrasing in.......

:2smiley.php: all in fun

Carol
~yes tis me~

 

[wchester]

As they used to say on the PBA Tour......
"LET YOUR BALL BE YOUR GUIDE"

in today's game the CARD is no longer a 200 average..it's closer to 220. If you believe everyone should be GIVEN the opportunity to average 200, I'll have to disagree with you 100%. No bowler should be GIVEN anything....if that's what the seniors want, then just maybe they should stick to bowling in handicap events and leave the scratch bowling to the real bowlers.

 

[Tintam]

Mr Bowling Tragic, where's your sense of humour, you obviously dont know our Tony and Paul. Build a bridge.

 

[JP]

Hi Paul,

Senior national tournaments are open events, I am not suggesting to have the same patterns as non-seniors, but 62% or 2% players are over the card (200), either is not a good condition. To have a consistency condition for senior national events, the only way is to have TBA to specify standards and rules, and to create a set of oil patterns suitable for seniors. TBA may have some issues in the past, but we have seen current TBA is making changes.

We have FUN for participating in senior events, it doesn’t only mean to have high score. I am happy if I perform well even if my score was lower at that day, and I known some other seniors are with me on this.

Regards,
JP

 

[Animal]

I am going to open myself up here for all sorts of threats and bull****.

Just what is wrong with 62% of a field of Seniors at a NationalTournament averaging 200 or better. I would have thought that with the majority of Senior Bowlers having competed at the top level in our sport for at least 30 years, should have the skills and the equipment these days to average very close to 200 or better, or do we want to go back to the bad old days and lay 18ft patterns buffed out to 24ft. Then you only have a small number of competitors travelling to the events due to injury, and hence the series dies due to lack of support , the same route as the adult circuit has traversed.
We have Seniors and Grand Seniors bowling in these events, and you need to consider fitness levels and injury prevention. It`s time people in our sport started looking at the big picture and stopped thinking everything is about them.
I am 57 years old, I bowl approx 30 games a week, I attend a personal trainer 3 days a week, I have a deep tissue massage once a week,
and I bowl tournaments most weekends. We have bowlers who are nearly 20 years my senior bowling in these events and would be very hard pressed to
battle a short condition over 18 games over 2 days.
Stop trying to be ridiculous, because you think it is what other people want to hear, and start thinking about the age of the competitor, the good of the sport ( whether you wish encourage people to keep bowling as they get older or not ), and stop thinking that the sport is the same for everyone. Remember, Tenpin Bowling is a sport for all ages, but it has to be managed correctly to satisfy the different ages, as none of us are 23 years old any more.
ANIMAL
this is my opinion as a competitor, and administrator.

 

[ifwirra]

HEAR HEAR, I agree with you wholeheartedly animal,while i do not bowl asmuch as you I still like the competition that exsists in the seniors as it is now. I am fast nearing 64 and at this stage if I had to make drastic alterations to my game because of massive lane conditions I would walk away.

 

[JP]

Hi Animal,

Glad to hear your thoughts, but it will be better without those "animal words".

Regards,
JP

 

[Baz]

I disagree with my esteemed colleagues Animal and Paul.
In Victoria, at least, we have Senior tournaments almost monthly and they are usually divided into Scratch, Handicap and other areas to suit bowlers of all levels and usually played on a house shot. Some of these are called "fun tournaments" and all are played in the best of spirit and friendliness. However, there are seven ranked events which now are the basis of international selection and I believe that these events should be played on some variation of an FIQ or Kegel tournament pattern. Certainly not "18ft patterns buffed out to 24ft", but longer patterns that don't take more effort just more skill.
If you play and event and you are ten pins per game behind that the winner I really don't see that it matters if you average 190 or 220. You know whether you played well or not. Further, if we select teams to travel overseas based on a ditch condition and we find tougher layouts when we get there we will be disadvantaged.

 

[Greig]

There's alway been a lot of discussion about lane conditions. And I'm the first to complain if there are too dry. However, in my opinion, regardless of the conditions, the cream always rises to the top.

 

[Transline]

Hi! Guys...I have managed to register myself here on Total and great to see the opportunities and topics to have ones say..Hi! JP I can talk to you now without going through Fred. I must agree with Animal re lane conditioning as a tech in a bowling centre and competitive 61 yr old bowler conditions needs to be appropreate. Having said that I don't believe it should be too easy for seniors, they still need the challenge. Regarding half price entries for interstate bowlers, what about pricing for international bowlers
Should it be 1/4 !!! do you think! Look forward to Adelaide cheers ...Alain

 

[JP]

There are several issues in my message, my focus is how to avoid these issues in our furture events, rather than which pattern should be used.

JP

 

[Kevin Blackmore]

In the real world it would be ideal to have a condition that all levels could bowl on and walk off the lanes at the end of the day and feel satisfied with their performance. Provided they made the correct adjustments to their game and equipment to suit the conditions. But as we all know what condition you ask for and what is actually laid down does vary and is mainly due to what or what has not been done to the oiling machine. (maintenance).
I would rather bowl in a tournament and at the end walk off and feel that I have at least done my best, than walk off the lanes and wonder if I will still be able to move the next morning after having to through the ball so hard to keep it in the pocket because the conditions are set up for the young bowlers who have got the strength throw the ball hard.
Let's just keep it simple and have fun doing it.