Suggestions

[John_Velo]

Hey Wchester,

I thought Scroggy lost respect because he is a lefty . I got that wrong.

But on that topic, I have read how much time Mike Scroggins has put into developing his game around the wrist device. George is the same, it is an artform that needs to be practiced and learnt. Simply waking on the Robo Arm won't make your shot better to the level these guys play the game, it does still need practice, I would hate to ditch the time these guys spent crafting their skill to be able to use the device at the level they do.

It all fun guys and part of our sport that allows more people to compete.

 

[jimcross]

I didn't use a wrist guard when I was 30. I didn't use a wrist guard when I was 60. Actually, I didn't use one when I was 65. I used one occasionally when I was 70. I use one all the time now, set in one place which keeps my wrist fairly straight. I use it for every shot. I also use one only ball for first shot, and a plastic for virtually all spares. Carrying more than two balls is too much of an effort.
Seems to me that over the years there have been so many technical ' aids' which override the base skills of delivering a plain surface, close to balance ( dynamically and statically ) ball, with accuracy,consistancy of release and controlled variations in speed of delivery, that to-day the use of a wrist device would be so far down the list of 'aids' as to be irrelevant.
Have a look at some of the videos of the Pros in the 60s, and wonder how they would go to-day on the present pro tour, using their 60s equipment. Then do the opposite and imagine the current crop bowling in the 60s, with that same equipment, and lane conditions. I think that would highlight how much the 'technical aids' have changed the face of bowling, and seeing that almost none of to-day's Pros use a wrist device, apparently they rate pretty low on the 'technical aid' scale. That is - unless someone is going to tell me that they have altruistic reasons for not taking an 'unfair advantage' over their fellow competitors. Come on !!!

 

[Dave84]

Fair enough-

 

[GeorgeF]

You'll also notice that there are not many elite right handed bowlers using a wrist device, this is because right handers need the ability to move deeper when the heads go and generate enough rotation to keep strikin from inside angles. There are a few lefties who can get away with it but that's because we rarely need to move in. If I was right handed there is no way I could bowl like I do but I realised a long time ago that being left handed allowed me to keep using a wrist device and remain competitive with 12-14 revs per shot.

I am competitive on the world stage with a wrist guard because of my knowledge, accuracy and consistency, even then though there are some patterns where my lack of rotation restricts my ability to strike like my competitors. If your right handed you can't use one, if you're left handed, you can get away with it for about 80% of patterns out there. If you can accept this, you'll make better decisions on your personal game and give yourself the opportunity to become a better bowler.

 

[Jasonguru]

Alright, i have read enough of this. Time for me to by in.

I started about 5 years ago using a wrist guard. It is up/down and sideways or lateral movement Robby's is the brand. The reason i started to use one is because i double dislocated my ring finger and it now no longer can lift in the ball. It was a very serious injury which surgery cannot fix.

I do not at any time use the lateral dial option to adjust that type of position, which can affect axis tilt, rotation, whatever way you want to look at it. I simply adjust the up down from notch 2 on 1st shot to notch 1 for sparing which is bare minimal adjusting from shot to shot. I compete in tournaments all over the place and i do find it can restrict me sometimes on the burn when needing depth and more rotation but i try to make the shot anyways.

For those who want to say they should not be allowed then come and see me and let me break and dislocate one of your fingers and a month or so later try to bowl while i slap the ball down in the backswing and see how much you continue to enjoy your game. I bet you do not last long.

Prior to having to use one, i had a higher rev rate probably and could vary more my release to suit various shot types i like to throw being a feel player.

They are in the rules and are allowed so deal with it. I may sound defensive about this but i do feel very strongly about this topic and if the rules allow then shut up and move on. I will also add however, that lateral guards should not be allowed in my opinion only cupping or uncupping (up/down) adjustments.

If you want to complain, talk to USBC or TBA and lodge a complaint. OR better still, refer to 3 paragraphs above. PM if you want to come to my centre, bring your gear and your hands and i will sort it out for you to experience

Jase

 

[Wal B]

I have tried to use a wrist guard on many occasions but never liked them. However they are allowed within the rules of the sport so if you want to use them do so.

Recently I advised a leading female bowler, who was in a dilemma about using such a device, that unless you are strong enough to hold a ball without a support or you want to change the position of your wrist at the release point (as do many high level male bowlers) then there is no reason why you should NOT use a wrist device.

The fact is that a majority of the worlds leading lady bowlers take advantage of wrist guards as do many seniors.

And of course the late Earl Anthony always used one. I doubt that any one had the courage to tell the player, rated as best in the past 50 years, he had it all wrong!

 

[Jasonguru]

well said as always wal.

your knowledge of this sport is exceptional.

 

[Michael Little]

I didn't use a wrist guard when I was 30. I didn't use a wrist guard when I was 60. Actually, I didn't use one when I was 65. I used one occasionally when I was 70. I use one all the time now, set in one place which keeps my wrist fairly straight. I use it for every shot. I also use one only ball for first shot, and a plastic for virtually all spares. Carrying more than two balls is too much of an effort.
Seems to me that over the years there have been so many technical ' aids' which override the base skills of delivering a plain surface, close to balance ( dynamically and statically ) ball, with accuracy,consistancy of release and controlled variations in speed of delivery, that to-day the use of a wrist device would be so far down the list of 'aids' as to be irrelevant.
Have a look at some of the videos of the Pros in the 60s, and wonder how they would go to-day on the present pro tour, using their 60s equipment. Then do the opposite and imagine the current crop bowling in the 60s, with that same equipment, and lane conditions. I think that would highlight how much the 'technical aids' have changed the face of bowling, and seeing that almost none of to-day's Pros use a wrist device, apparently they rate pretty low on the 'technical aid' scale. That is - unless someone is going to tell me that they have altruistic reasons for not taking an 'unfair advantage' over their fellow competitors. Come on !!!

Jim, some of those contraptions you built are certainly one of a kind lol. But you are following my point, if people want to use a wrist guard, it should be a fixed, non adjustable one.

George is right too, left handers can tend to get away with the use of one more often, as the right handers tend to need to keep moving left, a wrist guard will tend to restrict this ability to play deeper and generate enough to carry.

 

[Michael Little]

Alright, i have read enough of this. Time for me to by in.

I started about 5 years ago using a wrist guard. It is up/down and sideways or lateral movement Robby's is the brand. The reason i started to use one is because i double dislocated my ring finger and it now no longer can lift in the ball. It was a very serious injury which surgery cannot fix.

I do not at any time use the lateral dial option to adjust that type of position, which can affect axis tilt, rotation, whatever way you want to look at it. I simply adjust the up down from notch 2 on 1st shot to notch 1 for sparing which is bare minimal adjusting from shot to shot. I compete in tournaments all over the place and i do find it can restrict me sometimes on the burn when needing depth and more rotation but i try to make the shot anyways.

For those who want to say they should not be allowed then come and see me and let me break and dislocate one of your fingers and a month or so later try to bowl while i slap the ball down in the backswing and see how much you continue to enjoy your game. I bet you do not last long.

Prior to having to use one, i had a higher rev rate probably and could vary more my release to suit various shot types i like to throw being a feel player.

They are in the rules and are allowed so deal with it. I may sound defensive about this but i do feel very strongly about this topic and if the rules allow then shut up and move on. I will also add however, that lateral guards should not be allowed in my opinion only cupping or uncupping (up/down) adjustments.

If you want to complain, talk to USBC or TBA and lodge a complaint. OR better still, refer to 3 paragraphs above. PM if you want to come to my centre, bring your gear and your hands and i will sort it out for you to experience

Jase

Unfortunately mate, they are in the allowable rules, but as I have said, its fine for people to use them as it stands, but they shouldn't be able to use ones that are adjustable, irrespective of the reasons why.

Also unfortunate you have had an injury that requires you to use one, it is also these situations where they should be permissible but again, non adjustable ones. The ruling bodies aren't really interested in the matter, they might if people all over started winning with them.

In response to Wal, if a junior or female bowler is struggling to do as you say, then again, back to my point of using one as a training aide until they develop significant enough strength to not use one or use a fixed non adjustable one. And I would also hazard a guess that maybe only 30-40% of the worlds top women would use one, and most likely not all the time either. The rest have spent the time to develop their release to a high level. They would also use one because it serves a purpose, not because they can't do without one.

 

[John_Velo]

Hey Guys,

So to summarize, most would have no issue with a wrist support being worn if it was of the fixed type. For example the traditional wrap around type, or something like the old Scorpion fixed device?

But most have an issue with people that wear wrist release devices that offers cup and lateral adjustment type. For Example a Storm type device?

For the people most opposed to the devices, is it the cup or lateral adjustments that you feel should be removed from competition use?

Obviously none of these question will hold any bearing into the fact that they are allowed, but curious as to which bit most object to.

 

[androooo]

I don't have a problem with a fixed support. It's the adjustable ones that I have the problem with.

You shouldn't be able to use a device that allows you to do something, that you otherwise couldn't do. The again, they continue to make balls that hook, for people that have 3 revs... But that's a whole different thread

I always get a chuckle when I'm bowling with someone who wears a Robo-Cop arm, picks 3 off the right.... "Oooops, forgot to reset it after sparing my flat 10"

 

[jimcross]

That's the trouble with the English language. It has so many nuances possible in it, that what positively means 'black' when written by one person, can sometimes mean 'white' when read by another.
Michael, please enlighten me on this, - " Jim, some of those contraptions you built are certainly one of a kind lol."
You have truly lost me.

 

[Michael Little]

That's the trouble with the English language. It has so many nuances possible in it, that what positively means 'black' when written by one person, can sometimes mean 'white' when read by another.
Michael, please enlighten me on this, - " Jim, some of those contraptions you built are certainly one of a kind lol."
You have truly lost me.

You used to put together your own wrist supports or arm braces a while ago didn't you? That was all I was referring to as being one of a kind. No offence intended

 

[Michael Little]

Hey Guys,

So to summarize, most would have no issue with a wrist support being worn if it was of the fixed type. For example the traditional wrap around type, or something like the old Scorpion fixed device?

But most have an issue with people that wear wrist release devices that offers cup and lateral adjustment type. For Example a Storm type device?

For the people most opposed to the devices, is it the cup or lateral adjustments that you feel should be removed from competition use?

Obviously none of these question will hold any bearing into the fact that they are allowed, but curious as to which bit most object to.

I think both should be removed, as Andrew said, a device that allows someone to generate something that they cannot do otherwise, should be outlawed. A firm, fixed wrist support, that finishes at either the top or second knuckles, flat across with no index finger guard either. And yes, obviously a wrist guard of the fixed type allows bowlers to do things they couldn't previously, but the difference being, support compared to manufacturing.

 

[John_Velo]

Hi Michael and Andrew,

Fair call, The device I have is fixed but the front paddle maybe changed out. Not that I ever change it, it is just flat no cup as I use it as a support.

I might take up the challenge of a totally fixed device and see what the difference is. I will take a look around and see what I can find, things like the Ebonite Z-Loc series or the old Cobra's.

Will be an interesting exercise and learning experiment.

 

[Toon]

I think both should be removed, as Andrew said, a device that allows someone to generate something that they cannot do otherwise, should be outlawed.

Sorry to open a can of worms, but coverstocks,weight blocks and aggressive layouts do this to a much bigger effect than a wrist guard ever will.

 

[jayboybriz]

The Aussie tour needs a plastic or one ball tournament like the us... Then we'll see how it goes!

 

[John_Velo]

Will not work, the NSW SS ran one last year on request and 14 bowlers turned up.

I could see a two ball event maybe working, but in all honesty, why restrict the bowlers, it is aready hard enough to fill the field for a lot of events.

 

[Toon]

Though undoubtedly will sort the top bowlers from the gear gurus. There just isn't enough bowlers that would want to.

I am all for it, but it will never happen in this country.

 

[amagill]

Will not work, the NSW SS ran one last year on request and 14 bowlers turned up.

I could see a two ball event maybe working, but in all honesty, why restrict the bowlers, it is aready hard enough to fill the field for a lot of events.

If I recall correctly, there were a few clashes with the date of the plastic ball SS tourny. I know I wanted to bowl, but, as i've had with most SS, it's usually on a date that clashes with something else i've already had planned.... That's the way it goes unfortunately. I would love for another one, or perhaps (as you've eluded to), maybe even a urethane/plastic only....