NATIONAL TOURNAMENT BOWLERS ASSOC

[jockey]

Steve

You say that you have a framework in place and need to fine tune the particulars. However from what replies you have posted to suggestions I believe their may be a floor to that framework.

Although their may be as Joe mentioned 1000 odd 190+ average bowlers in this country I would suggest and not be alone in doing so that only about a quarter of those bowlers are genuine 190+ average bowlers. I base this on the fact that a high percentage of those averages are garnered on cushy conditions that do not require correct repetitive shot making ability.

With this in mind a framework based purely on the elite bowler is destined to fail after the initial honeymoon period.

The only bright spot may be the success of the format run at the AO over Easter where the numbers were almost if not as budgeted for. Adding 8 pins per game for women would have ensured at least one woman making the cut so this definately needs to be included in the make up of events.

The lack of pathways for those bowlers who find that they are initially not up to scratch bowling in the events is going to prove a huge hurdle in ensuring that the initial NBA goes forward after the honeymoon period. It is not scaremongering to state that for it to fail in its first year would be devastating to the permanent future of competitve bowling in this country.

Thus for the NBA to be succesful long term we may have to look at implementing some sort of second tier division in events to ensure bowlers feel they have a chance to cash or a way of genuinely measuring what they have to do to be able to compete at the first tier level.

I suggest that it would be great to see Ian Nicholls tournament systems in place at NBA events as the information provided via the frames break down was an invaluable resource to bowlers during an event as I remember from the MTC and also interstate events.

This is not going to be an easy thing to implement and I sincerely hope that something that works for everyone can be put into place in time before AMF pulls the plug on the tournaments that they do run.

 

[Sydpies]

Well it is great to see a few bowlers put their hands up. But what about all those SA and WA bowlers who have screamed for years to have something on a national basis. Come on guys this is being set up for you the bowlers. If you cant put your hand up or make comment on this site with regards to anything re NBA then u should not complain when & if AMF pull the plug on tournament play in 2010.

It's time U the BOWLERS had your say about the future of Tournament Bowling in Australia.

 

[steve jones]

Terry,

Allow me to review your comments as per your email. You deserve a comprehensive reply because of your regular input to the TB site. I can't say I agree with all that you say [and I'm sure the reverse is the case] - but I certainly respect your input.

1. There WILL be floors in the framework - of course...that's why I need input from others.

2. I simply can't agree with your view on the lacklustre nature of actual on-lane performance of Open bowlers nation wide [forget the word "elite" - it's as much a marketing terminology as anything else Terry and I have of course used it a lot in summary..so perhaps I should cut that out].

3. With respect "nothing" actually has to be included in any event unless it is commercially sound. Men, women, youth ....even cats and dogs - the model is a function of sound commercial realities - it is offers no basis for charity.

4. Frankly - I think the AO format was a pigs breakfast. I understand and respect WHY it was done - and I am the first to congratulate those involved for developing a concept that [at the very least] ensured the title was held in some manner or form.

But - having to bastardise the format of a premier event like the Australian Open [is there actually a more prestigious title in this country??] to make the thing commercially sound says far more about the state of the tournament scene in this country than it does about the event promoter who did the best they could in difficult circumstances...and some have the gall to bucket AMF.....please .....spare me. The thing isn't dead simply because they thought outside the square - was it right - well yes commercially in the circumstances - was it really RIGHT - well ...ahh..no!

5. Offering pathways to the future is a given - it is clearly an obvious and essential element to grow the entityl. My reflecions of only being interested in a National Open program should not at any time deflect the reality that the entity [in whatever form it takes] MUST offer/have growth potential..growth can ONLY come from bleeding into the framework a new element...in simple terms - help those on the outside who want to get IN.......thus it is essential to create a path to a door of entry.

5. I'm not sure I know who Ian Nicholls is or what he does....I'm sure he is a splendid fellow - but I'm happy to learn.

6. If for one minute you were of the view that I thought this was easy - you are, with the greatest level of respect I can muster.......utterly out of your mind.

Thanks for the input Terry - as always a great help and worthwhile evaluating and responding to.

Steve

 

[AdrianS]

Ian did alot of stuff with the ATBA in Victoria through the mid/late 90's. Including the best live scoring software the world has seen!!!!

 

[steve jones]

Ok and thx Adrian - I now know who Ian is I just couldn't bring him to mind right away [sorry Ian I didn't mean to forget you - getting old I guess] - he does do great work as you and Terry point out.

Thx for the "mind jog",

Steve

 

[lovey]

Jonesy that's what happens when your over 60 you forget things. By the way,what's your first name!!!!!! I can't remember.
Cheers Lovey

 

[Sydpies]

Not much interest inthe NBA....

 

[wchester]

From the looks of the responses, or lack thereof, it appears that Australia's scratch tournament bowlers are content with sitting back and watching the 'sport' die a painful, lingering death.

I'm all for an organised association of tournament bowlers. We NEED to take responsibility for our own future and quit laying the blame on others for our failures.

 

[steve jones]

Wayne and Joe ....as far as I'm concerned it's DEAD! Frankly, I neither have the time or the inclination to drag anything kicking and screaming out into the daylight [and Wayne I know you have tried also in the not so distant past] -well.... except for a business that we can drive revenue and profit out of..and this concept does not make the grade...clearly.

I wish those down the track who want to re-plant the concept the best of luck and I trust they receive more interest and support than we have over the past weeks.

If I have said this [or written it] once, I have done so 100 times - "there is almost no such thing as a new idea - mostly it is an old idea that's time has come".

An Australian Bowling Tour [in one form or another] is certainly NOT a new idea - it would appear however it's time is not yet right - will it EVER be?

Thanks to those that kicked the concept around and supported it in public and in private. I appreciate your input and interest and in many cases "guidance" - all of it worthwhile and informative.

Best of luck next time around,

Steve

 

[tonx]

Steve,

I think within the next 10 years, the focuss will move towards state based tournaments more than interstate tournaments.

Ideally, 100 entrants to a state based tournament shouldn't be unrealistic. Once bowlers can make a decent profit within state events, then and only then can a national scene successfully run.

The Victorian Sports Series is going to go through a big shake up next year. We will (hopefully) have a full table of experienced bowlers, business people and centre managers who will work as a team to build the VSS to its full potential. Hopefully we can build a working structure to benefit the bowler financially and also give them valuable experience competing against the best in the state on a regular basis, and when it works, other states can base their structure off the same template.

It is probably going to be a long road, given right now we can't even get bowlers to NOT withdraw from the tournament, but as far as bowling in Australia is concerned, this is basically our best bet.

Pretty amazing concept, considering almost every state that runs a Sports series had it started by Youth bowlers.

My question to the board.

Why has it been left up to the youngest generation of bowlers to try and revive the sport at a state level? Doesn't anyone else give a ****?

 

[steve jones]

Well Tonx - I couldn't agree more - from what I see the focus on state events is where it is..there is nothing wrong with that of course....it's EXACTLY how the sport evolved. Mind you - I thought [perhaps, had hoped] that Open bowling in this country had matured somewhat since those days..I guess not.

But maybe you are right Tonx - maybe Open bowling needs to regress simply to progress. It appears it has little choice.

Thx for your input

Steve

 

[tonx]

IT isn't so much the maturity of open bowling that has hurt the most, but the general cost of living and travelling interstate to tournaments. State based reduces everyones costs.

Once it costs less, more people will participate. Once more people participate, prize funds go up. Once that happens, we are back on track.

 

[Brenton_Davy]

Well Tonx - I couldn't agree more - from what I see the focus on state events is where it is..there is nothing wrong with that of course....it's EXACTLY how the sport evolved. Mind you - I thought [perhaps, had hoped] that Open bowling in this country had matured somewhat since those days..I guess not.

But maybe you are right Tonx - maybe Open bowling needs to regress simply to progress. It appears it has little choice.

Thx for your input

Steve

Steve,

There have been many hurdles of recent times that have made it more and more dfficult to attract entries.

1. As Tonx said, the general cost of living has risen markedly, making it harder to afford the travel, accomodation etc

2. Baggage restrictions of recent times has made it very difficult to get arsenals to tournament sites.

3. The emphasis on equipment matchups has made it necessary to have the latest and greatest equipment to remain competitive.

4. Short lead in times (entry forms release to tournament date time) making it difficult to get cheaper flights.

As a result, the requirement to get state based events up and running again, I believe, is vital to getting the national circuit back ito a healthy state. The time is right for a NTBA, but only participating in a maximum of, say 6 national events. The rest of the year taken up with state based events, giving the bowlers cheaper, good value tournament experience.

We could well have a ready made product to sell to sponsors (we certainly have the ability to reach a relatively wide viewing audience now!) as long as we can put forward a model that has a reasonable prizefund, a solid base of entries, helped by local players when the circuit visits town and the chance of to give said sponsors value for money.

 

[AdrianS]

Sounds like what we have up here in QLD. 60-70 people travelling over part of the state, dishing out 150 bucks to win 800. Plus Twin Tour for people that like to stay closer to Brizzie and a few majors scattered around all parts of the state. And a few people will quite willingy have a bash at all 3 of those curcuits!!. Guess poor old sport series got squeezed out but hopefully itll come back.

Its slowly coming back with the sports series in other states and a few other semi majors so maybe it is growing again(a twin tour type curcuit in other states apart from up here would help too IMO) Check back in a couple of yrs and hopefully the growth is continuing

 

[steve jones]

Thx again for that input - but I guess I must be utterly mad - for what I see is an entirely different concept bigger and broader and so more far reaching - but as I say I guess it's too early for the concept to appeal to a wider audience. Thus - after nearly 50years we stand still - or even regress...perhaps to be more positive - "regroup" is kinder.

We can also choose to "major in the minors" - pick holes in things that are minor annoyances like excess baggage allowances [just to select one small hurdle and certainly not to focus just on that] .....and if you need an analysis of what an average air fare costs now when carved up against an average weekly income compared by ratio against the same data - say 10 - 15 years ago - well you would be surprised that it has dropped lick a rock.

And this is not being unkind to anyone ..not Tonx or Adrian and certainly not Brenton who has earned his stripes well and truely [and has the big picture in focus]- but I just don't believe these and other points mentioned are anything other than annoyances - that with the right determination and management can be overcome.

Still - at the end of the day it's all about "timing". I guess the timing right now is ..well shall I say.............off.

 

[AdrianS]

Its so frustrating, we know what we want but dont quite know how to get it(damn almost repeated a Sex Pistols lyric then, hmmmm punk bowling there another idea!! )

 

[Brenton_Davy]

Thx again for that input - but I guess I must be utterly mad - for what I see is an entirely different concept bigger and broader and so more far reaching - but as I say I guess it's too early for the concept to appeal to a wider audience. Thus - after nearly 50years we stand still - or even regress...perhaps to be more positive - "regroup" is kinder.

We can also choose to "major in the minors" - pick holes in things that are minor annoyances like excess baggage allowances [just to select one small hurdle and certainly not to focus just on that] .....and if you need an analysis of what an average air fare costs now when carved up against an average weekly income compared by ratio against the same data - say 10 - 15 years ago - well you would be surprised that it has dropped lick a rock.

And this is not being unkind to anyone ..not Tonx or Adrian and certainly not Brenton who has earned his stripes well and truely [and has the big picture in focus]- but I just don't believe these and other points mentioned are anything other than annoyances - that with the right determination and management can be overcome.

Still - at the end of the day it's all about "timing". I guess the timing right now is ..well shall I say.............off.

Steve,

Second thing first, no I don't think the timing is off. Indeed with the inclusion of professional bowlers in FIQ competition, the timing has never been better. I just feel we need to focus just as much, if not more on state based tournaments for prospective members of a NTBA. As the depth increases inthe talent pool of players that wish to take part nationally, the increase in numbers (and, as a result, number of viable tournaments) will become evident.

First thing second, yes, you probably are barking mad, but then thats the Steve Jones we have known (or at least I have for decades. If your broader vision can be backed up by measures to alleviate these "annoyances" then its quite conceivable ch would be to make the events that a larger national circuit may well be viable. One of which would be to make the events sufficiently viable to get people, especially those in less than secure employment, to take the time off to bowl.

 

[Sydpies]

Gee all this is very amusing some of the comments with regards to Air Flights (too dear) Motel cost, Baggage cost etc. We heard the same comments 25-30 years ago. The fact of the matter is that is what you the bowlers have to put up with. And regardless of what sport or hobbies you get into, there is always a cost involved.

I can tell you Air fares are much cheaper than 25 years ago when I used to fly interstate to bowl, and I was not one of the ones who were winning these events, but a bowler who used to enjoy going away and trying to match it with the big boys.

What really amazes me is the average bowler who spends $$$$$$ to go away to Darrell Holt Challenge and all they win is a Medal. But these bowlers love the game and love meeting up with fellow bowlers from all over Australia. Yes it does cost but they are prepared to pay this cost for the enjoyment of following their passion.

And Tonx your comment about Youth Bowlers starting it all, well mate it was a lot of older bowlers who started to organise these youth event so that our Juniors and youth had a pathway. Which great and allowed so many young bowlers to get up and become great bowlers and some hopefully will turn into our future champs. But it would be so much better with a NTBA where the best will hone their skills against the best in the country and that will help bring forth a much better profile for the general public to recognise.