Intrastate Challenge

[stormy]

I agree with Bert and Scoops let it drop

Now

about this challenge

Scoops
i think the juniors should use their averages from the Nats
this would give the others soming to think about

but to make it interesting it should be 75% of 210 as I have seen the ability from the Oakford team.

Reg

its alright to want to go head to head, but not if the others when included.

you could have scratch winners and handicap winners, but the way you put it you had already conceeded losing to Rachuig. :roll:

It would be great if CIB could organise a date that would close to the nationals, something could be worked out as prizes etc. Roy may even think of something (who knows).

let the fun begin

 

[Grim64]

Hi all,
as a newbie to the rep bowling scene I think it would be great to see the cream of Canberra in an Intrastate challenge.
How about some sort of BBQ at the end. Drinks it would seem are a given.
Any thoughts on the issue :?:

 

[Reg Gooch]

but the way you put it you had already conceeded losing to Rachuig.


Does anyone here think that scratch head to head that rachuig would not give us all a flogging. The problem of handicap would not be an issue due to the fact that three of the men in Deveer won't have a handicap to speak of. We had better get going with this as the challenge is set down for the 19th,20th and 21st of september. A bbq is a great idea and a few drinks also good. I heard last years didn't go to plan so i hope that it can get off the ground this year. 8)

 

[DrewC]

Challenge.

Don't think a venue has been decided yet guys.

Don't know what sort of format they're going to use this year but wouldn't mind seeing everyone play scratch. Would give everyone a good idea of where they are at.

If not everyone should get handicap, whether it be 90% of 210 or whatever in years gone by the Rachuig men have come to these challenges played off scratch and given 300 sticks a game to the deveer teams. We throw 1100 and get done by 100 or more.

Waste of time.

Rachuig is what the deveer and juniors should be aspiring to and in some cases maybe Aus team.

Lets look at it as more of a chance to guage where everyone is at with their game rather than a 'challenge'.

Just my thoughts.

Drew

 

[Greg Ward]

Gday everyone.

Sorry for the long post.

One of the problems with having a handicap format is that the actual average used is generally based on a league average which I will agree is not a 100% accurate reflection of a bowlers ability and can skew the results.

What I was proposing last week was that the average used (for all entrants) is the highest of either the bowlers state rolloff average or nationals average over the past 12 months – I believe this is closer to a bowlers’ true capability under “tournament” conditions and should alleviate the problem Drew has eluded to.

I need to apologise in advance because I don’t have the data for the seniors or Oakford teams (if someone can point me in the right direction I will include it as well, or if someone else can post the results, as it would be interesting to get these stats in here as well. Also I apologise for not including the women’s results but I am sure the same argument would hold and I can publish as a separate post if anyone is interested. And I haven’t included last years Rachuig or Deveer results but I think the data below shows what I am suggesting.
This is the info I used:

Presidents Shield (2003 tournament results)
Stephen COWLAND 214
Chris SLATTERY 205
Brad DOUGLAS 189
Ben RANKIN 183
Scott RICHARDS 178
Ben ROBINSON 178
Jeremy SHIPP 175
Team Average 189

Presidents Shield (2003 roll offs)
Slattery, Chris 206
Robinson, Ben 200
Rankin, Ben 197
Cowland, Stephen 183
Shipp, Jeremy 180
Coleman, Brad 177
Richards, Scott 173
Team Average 188

Rachuig Roll offs
Drew Charlton 217
Brett Smith 207
Rob Townsend 207
Mike Seymour 202
Andrew Blissett 196
Chris Bateup 195
Alan Skupin 200
Team Average 203

De Veer Roll offs
Greg Ward 178
Gareth Fletcher 186
Reg Gooch 180
Lance Hickey 170
James Burns 170
Bruce Brown 181
Graeme Clemow 177
Team Average 177

Basically this implies that if each team was to put their highest average 5 person team on the lane and we all bowl to average then the results will be:

Rachuig: Drew 217, Brett 207, Rob 207, Mike 202, Alan 200, Total 1033
Presidents Shield: Stephen 214, Chris 206, Ben Rankin 200, Ben Robinson 197, Brad 189 Total 1006
De Veer: Gareth 186, Bruce 181, Reg 180, Greg 178, Graeme 177 Total 902.

Now there isn’t much between the top two teams but 120 pins between Rachuig and De Veer on average is way too much to give away. Seniors and Oakford also have to be considered here.

Now if the rumours are true then the Legends (or probably more likely if Matty gets his ideal team – maybe called the “All Stars”) should all be off at least 210 to give even Rachuig an even chance.

Anyway I have waffled far too long. This is just my thoughts. If we use the averages above then I think 100% of 210 is still fair. But if we go for 75% of 210 then league average is probably a fairer way to go.

As Reg has said the De Veer teams have the weekend of 19th (5 games evening CIB), 20th (8 games Queanbeyan) and 21st (8 games Belconnen) of September with the Sunday being earmarked as the team challenge. Does that suit or do we need to consider some other time and or some other venue?

Also congratulations to all the ACT bowlers at the NSW cup on the weekend…well done to all.

Greg.

 

[stormy]

When I was talking about the juniors, I was referring to the teams that competed in the Intercentre Club as these were all local Kids and they are the up and coming juniors, they also have won the cup for the third time in a row and should have the oportunity to go up against Rachuig team memebers and DeVeer as this would be an incentive.

The Presidents Shield is made up of Kids from Woolongong this year and they may or may not want to come here for this challenge, that is why I said INTRASTATE challenge (meaning those from Canberra)

It would be good to see the presidents shield kids here too, but don't hold your breath.

 

[Grim64]

It seems that there is very little interaction between De Veer & Rachuig :? . Is there an incident in the past that is common knowledge to the "old salts" :?:
In a previous post, a comment was made that De Veer should be aiming to make Rachuig(or words to that effect). I think that most bowlers (sportspeople) want to be the best that they can. I have been bowling for around 5 years now, and find that there is very little help for novices.
Given that the Rachuig bowlers are the top of the heap, wouldn't it make sense for them to actively encourage bowlers who have not yet made it to the top?

And what about the BBQ. Now that is REALY important!

 

[Greg Ward]

Grim,

I think it is just that Rachuig don't like being beaten by De Veer.

Maybe there can be a little side bet for the BBQ. Losers shout?

G.

 

[Craigy]

Just like to add my opinion

There is no way that you are going to get the act shield team
down to the act to bowl because 100% of the team lives at illawarra.

For the juniors an idea would be to use either the intercentre cup
teams or get the people that will be trying out for shield next year
from canberra :roll: :roll: :roll:

Michael Craig

 

[Greg Ward]

Can someone suggest an intercentre cup team?

G.

 

[TazDevil27]

Greg,

I'll e-mail you the details of the Oakford team roll-offs or do you want to go from the results from the Oakford challenge at the Disabled Nationals?

Just to throw the cat amoungst the pigeons: What about the Women's ACT Rep Teams? There has been no mention so far about getting them involved.

 

[Greg Ward]

Michael,

Women's teams are definitely to be involved (providing there is the interest). I only ommitted the results in my long post yesterday because I felt the post was too long and more info would have just made it more confusing.

If there is enought interest from other teams whether it be Women's, Intercentre cup juniors, Presidents Shield, Rachuig, Seniors or "Legends" (or any other team) then it will be up each team to take it back to their individual team management and make it happen.

With regards to the results both the roll off and National's results are required so that they can be collated and considered. Just as a reminder my suggestion for the "highest individual rolloff or National's results" is just one way of doing it. And a "better" method may be devised between now and the challenge starting.

Greg.

 

[Grim64]

Ok, it seems that there is a fair amount of interest in the bowling side of this event. I think that the social side of things needs to be addressed.
We all like to bowl...so we all have at least on thing in common. I am prepared to arrange for the BBQ to happen. I have access to a portable four burner barbie. I am not talking a fancy do. Snags, onions, bread & sauce (all Australian functions can be improved by a sausage sizzle! ).
It dosn't cost much to feed a lot of people. A couple of dollars per head and Bob's your uncle.
What about a bit of fund raising for ourselves for the Nationals by supplying a few coldies at $2.00 a beer. Cheaper than the bars, and the profit to go to the trip away.

So any :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: 8)

 

[Reg Gooch]

Hey A few of you will get this but the legends team name should be the Neville's and i am sure Matt would be the captain. :lol: :lol:
Now seriously all teams should be welcome both men and women. I belive the reasons behind this challenge not including the oakford teams and juniors is due to the fact that it was a lead up thing to the nationals. Which of course at the time it is held the oakford and president sheild teams have already bowled in their respective nationals. I am sure its no problem to have this challenge with all act rep teams but i don't think we will come to a log ahead over the handicap system unless it is fair to all parties involved. 8) 8)

 

[Craigy]

If you would like to include juniors there are two different types of teams you could include

President shield roll off (next year)

Carranna Morris
Roseanne Willis
Mel Wdowick
Kyle Webber
Isaac Kesby
Luke Blair
and
Me (Michael Craig)

Or

Intercentre Cup (Must be handicap)

krystal Guy
Glyn Thwates
Allan Parbes
Kyle Webber
and
me


these lists are only from CIB

* Michael Craig *

 

[Reg Gooch]

One more thing to add if we are going to do this we need to get the team managers to discuss this soon. I know that the seniors don't even know anything about this.

And don't mind Grim64 he is just a pisshead lol. But most of us are the BBQ and drinks sounds great 8)

 

[Scotty Gooch]

Ok I have stayed quite for long enough!

State Challenge - Great Idea, but going from past years and I am talking a few years ago now they where boring and basically a waste of time and money for all concerned. The handicap systems only favoured the restricted players and at the end of the tournament the restricted players gloated about the victory over the open players.

I really have no ideas when it comes to fair for all handicap system however I sugest bowling scratch really does make all bowlers perform at their best.

I have a sugestion which I sms to Drew in regards to prizes or something to play for and that is:

Every team that enters the challenge puts in $100.00 (that per team) and all 4 Centres put in $100.00 and winner takes all thats the incentive to bowl and win.

Now which centre should it be bowled at well how about put all 4 centres in a hat and have Mike Seymour draw it out (now that would depend on how many teams enter the challenge if there where more than 12 you would have to only have Woden, Belconnen and CIB, due to the size of Qbyn.

These are only my sugestions but you need to make it worth it for all concerned and you need to make it as fair a competition as possible see how you go.

Goochie :wink: :wink:

 

[Craigy]

I have been talkting to scoops about it and i have an idea for the
challenge but it is not so much bowling with your team (and it is really hard to explain)

for example!!!
if you have 1. Rachuig men 2. Rachuig Women 3. De veer Men
4. De veer women and 5. Juniors (5 teams)

you take one bowler from each eg.

Rachuig men - Drew Charlton
Rachuig women - karen Smith
De veer men - Grame Clemow
De veer women - Cheryl Dennis
juniors - Kyle Webber

that would make one team

a group of people would have to chose
the team members from hand so the overall
teams averages are similar then the tournament
could be scratch but still requiers bowling over your
personal average in order to win

i know this is confusing so if you have any
questions about something i have screwed up
please ask

and please remember this is only an example i do
not know all the teams that will be bowling

* Michael Craig *

 

[stormy]

Scottie

when we talk about a challenge and you are also including Juniors (for experience), Oakford teams and Deveer and Rachuig, there needs to be a compromise.

I suggested a handicap of either 66% -75% of 210, I would lean more towards 66% as a bowler on 170 would only have a handicap of 26, they would still need to work hard to beat most of the Rachuig bowlers.

Oakford reps will argue that 100% of 210 would be best, but I would need to disagree with this as they can and have shown that some if not all of their bowlers can bowl well over their averages.

The juniors would come to beat the pants of the DeVeer bowlers and to see how well they would do against the Rachuig "stars" they would like scratch and with handicap just to keep all the bowlers within 30-40 pins per game.

As to centres
Woden is not suitable for Oakford bowlers :cry:
Queanbeyan not suitable and to small :cry:
which only leave CIB and Belconnen 8)

Lets not make too much of this as it is a way to get all the bowlers together and to inspire and be inspired. :idea:

Lets not make it a contest of who is better, rather lets have a competition based upon a common theme- respect and the mutal love of the game. We all bowl because we enjoy the sport, it really does not matter if I'm better than you or you're better than me - who really gives a shit.

So at the next meeting of the ACTBA a date be set and the fun begin.

 

[Grim64]

MiKel, what a great :idea: . I think that this would be a solution to the handicap issue. It also takes away the "we beat you" issue that seems to trouble people.
It realy does come down to a case of put your best ball forward on the day.
The other thing that comes up then, is the money (Scott's idea), the winning team takes all!