great debate

[frosty]

OPEN FRAME OR NOT??????
QU.A: WHEN BOWLING THE TENTH FRAME AFTER THROWING A STRIKE ON THE 1ST BALL THEN BOWLING A 9 MISS. IS THIS FRAME CONSIDERED CLOSED OR OPEN????
QU.B: IF YOU BOWL A 9 SPARE 9 IN THE TENTH FRAME IS THIS AN OPEN OR CLOSED FRAME?????

IN QUESTION A, DOES THE STRIKE CONSTITUTE A CLOSED FRAME IRRESPECTIVE OF WHAT YOU DO AFTER IT, OR DOES THE 9 MISS NOW CONSTITUTE IT TO BE AN OPEN?

PLEASE RESPOND AND FURTHER MORE PLEASE GIVE A REASON. THERE MAY BE A WAR ON. WE ARE VERY CLOSE TO BLOODSHED ON THIS ISSUE!!![/u]

 

[frosty]

UPON READING THE ABOVE MESSAAGE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE REPLY STRAIGHT AWAY. IT SHOULD ONLY TAKE A COUPLE OF SECONDS.
DO NOT WORRY YOU WILL NOT BE APART OF THE BLOOD SHED.

 

[flipper_dj]

I would consider both cases to be closed frames. The fact that you get to bowl 3 balls in the 10th frame indicates that the frame has been closed. ie you only get the bonus balls if you have closed the frame.

I hope my response helps

 

[bowlrig]

there are only 10 frames in a game of tenpin bowling therefore a spare or strike in the tenth frame constitutes a closed frame

Rob

 

[KriDdLe]

i beleive to close the tenth frame you would have to strike out or 9/ X or X9/ the 9 can be ranged from miss to 9... but to x9- i class as half a frame open or 9/9 etc.

 

[noey]

Each of these examples are definitely closed frames. The strike or spare give you the opportunity for bonus balls to complete your count. You cant get a strike in a frame but still have an open frame.
You cannot have the opportunity to bowl the additional bonus balls if you have not closed the frame.

 

[Craigy]

In my own oppinion i would have to say that an all spare game is where every chance you get to make a spare you have to pick it up eg. X9/ is an all spare game X9- is not an all spare game because you had the chance to spare it where as if u have 9/9 it still couts as an all spare game because you are not given the oppertuinity to spare it.

Thats just what i think

 

[Craigy]

Sorry i also think the same way about closing the frame

 

[jockey]

To be an all spare the strike has to come after the spare in the tenth. Also regardless of the count on the bonus ball the game will still count as an all spare as 1 game X 10 frames X 10 spares. To strike on the bonus ball would just make it a clean game.

As to whether it is an open or not I guess it comes down to how technical you want to get.

I would say in the purest definition that you closed the tenth frame but left the eleventh or twelve frames incomplete if you got a <10 count after a strike/spare or a double.

So I guess in answer to the actual question you can never say that the tenth frame was opened but the subsequent bonus frames were left incomplete.

 

[micky_macca]

spare - count eg 9/9 = closed
double - count eg XX9 = closed
strike - count eg X9- = open

Thats how i see it

 

[samt_fromnt]

I would think if u threw a spare or a strike in the 10th frame first it would be consided close..... my opinion...... :idea: :? :? :? :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

 

[noey]

Something to consider, micky_macca

If 9/6 in tenth frame is closed but,
x9- in tenth frame is open

How can you get more pinfall for an open frame then you can for a closed frame.

Think this topic could end up in the never to be solved basket.

 

[da_cowman]

It all depends on the count after a Strike/Spare as to whether a open or closed is worth more.
Your case. 9/6 =16 and X9- =19. But change the numbers around, X6-, or 9/9. Assuming the Strike is singular, and not part of string. The tenth would then be worth 16 and 19 respectivly. Open worth less then closed the way it should be. Consider also, First frame of a game.

1st, 2nd, total at end of 2nd frame.
X 9- = 28
9/ -/ = 20 to 30.

Once again, its based purely upon the count after the strike or spare.

For closing the tenth frame you get a reward of up to 2 bonus shots. If you Spare or strike, you closed the frame. Thats how I see it...

Later Da Cowman!

 

[Levithian]

x in the tenth i would call a closed frame. a 9 miss means you missed on the fill ball.

 

[GeorgeF]

This debate was on bowl.com and pba.com recently and it was established that if you strike the first ball of the tenth, you have closed the frame no matter what the 2 deliveries after that.

 

[BOBBA]

all i have 2 say is that if there is still pins standing at the end of the tenth frame regardless of how its done then i would consider it an open frame. this is the case with the 9 other frames so y not follow this logic thru to the 10th.

 

[TMK]

Great Debate.

Its match play...both bowlers are even going into the 10th frame.
Both strike X.....in the 11th,both stick a corner pin.
Its now the 12th frame.

The lefty misses the 7 pin,he,s now opened. :shock:

The righty nails the 10 pin and closes the frame...and wins.
8)
Whichever way you look at it,the lefty lost because he "opened" in the 10th.

 

[androooo]

Re: Great Debate.

Whichever way you look at it,the lefty lost because he "opened" in the 10th.

Typical lefty :lol:

 

[wchester]

Mr Kury is trying to trick everyone. :wink:
The 12th frame can only be bowled if you strike in both the 10th and 11th.
A fact, of which even a beginner bowler should be aware.

 

[Sumo]

Back to the original topic....
When all else fails Read the Instructions (Rules)

RULE 101 SCORING THE GAME
a. A game of Australian tenpins will consist of ten frames. Each player will bowl two balls in each of the first nine frames except when he will make a strike. A player who scores a strike or spare in the tenth frame will deliver three balls.
RULE 106 ERROR
A player will have made an error when he fails to bowl down all ten pins after having completed two deliveries in a given frame provided the pins left standing after the first ball is bowled do not constitute a split. The number of pins knocked down after the first delivery, before the player bowls at the remaining pins, should be marked in the upper left corner of the frame. The number of pins knocked down with the second delivery should be marked in the upper right corner of the frame. The count in every frame where an error is committed will be recorded immediately following the player’s second delivery.
TBA RULES VERSION 5.1 – 2/2/04

So, there is no such thing as an 11th frame, just bonus ball or balls for the 10th frame. The only time you get an error/open frame is where the ten pins racked for the tenth frame are not cleared within two balls i.e. 8-1 or 9-0 etc

X9- is not an error or open frame.

Sumo