ebonite's hook-again theory

tonx

tonx

New Member
reading through old archives i came aross this link: http://www.ebonite.com/news/news_detail.php?PRKey=24

In a nutshell the artice try's to explain a main reason for a ball 'dieing' is a migration of plasticizer to the surface of the ball; in fact more so than the oil absorbtion into the ball.

Now if this 'theory' is thought over (yes i can think altho that might surprise people!!!) what it is saying is the more that a certain part of the ball comes in contact with the lane, the quicker it will 'die.'

The whole point of this post is- If rolling over the same part of the ball is minimised... shouldn't the ball last longer?

Therefore theoretically if a high flaring ball is drilled for a high flaring roll, they are saying that the ball will last longer, compared to a low flaring ball drilled label.

That hasn't been the case with anything that i have had drilled agressively, if anything they have died quicker...

If anybody can find a fault in this theory please post a reply... In the mean time: Nice theory ebonite!
 
Sorry Tonx but technically they are right.....

Because high flaring drillings cross over more of the ball surface its only natural that it will experience less wear and tear than a low flaring ball. The difference is marginal and then factors of rotation come into play (Belmo's ball would wear out before mine would)

At the end of the day though, bowlers should be cleaning there balls every time after they bowl with an approved ball cleaner to ensure maximum life.

Maybe the reason your high flaring balls seem to die earlier is that because of lack of cleaning the reaction will be less pronounced. High flare = more grip and more turn, if the balls dirty, both grip and turn are effected. It would be harder to identify a low flaring balls lack of performance as it usually has a controlled and predicable ball path. Even when dirty, low flaring balls will keep this sort of pathway which may not be picked up by the naked eye as easily.

Hope it makes sense
 
tonx if that theory is correct then the more revs you throw
the quicker the ball will die
 
All reactive and particle balls die... I have had many a different ball, and each one eventually dies. Ebonites theory is saying that even if balls are cleaned regularly that the migration of plasticizer will remain constant. The reason we clean bowling balls is to obviously wipe the balls pores clean from the lane conditioner that builds up after each time we use the ball. Tell me how cleaner is supposed to wipe/draw the plasticizer out of the surface.

A high flaring aggressive ball is designed to absorb more oil as it goes down the lane, ie; something with a high particle load (as you more than likely know) therefore it is more than likely to die quicker. what ebonite is saying is completely the opposite: that a ball rolling over the same track will have more plasticizer migration to the players track area, therefore t should die quicker compared to a loaded particle ball that flares a great deal. They say nothing about the amount of revs.

Even tho the hook again product is fantastic in its own rights, i still believe the theory is a huge marketing tool.
 
A high flaring aggressive ball is designed to absorb more oil as it goes down the lane, ie; something with a high particle load (as you more than likely know) therefore it is more than likely to die quicker.

Tonx

I think your a little confused, the ball wears out due to tracking over the same part of the ball over and over. What happens with a High flaring ball is that it tracks over new parts of the ball resulting in less wear than a low flaring ball which tracks over the same part of the ball over and over.

As an example, if you get as high flaring ball throwing 14 revs and generate 7 inches of flare, you have probably not tracked over the same area of the ball twice (apart from the bow tie when the flare rings meet). Which means you are tracking over FRESH surface almost everytime (14 new parts of the ball track).

Now if you drill a ball for now flare, it will track over the same part of the ball constantly which means from 14 revs you have probably hit the same area on the ball 12-14 times (resulting in more wear).

So if you compare them, HIGH FLARE = 14 new parts of the ball, LOW FLARE = 1-2 new parts of the ball. In summary creating more wear for the LOW flaring ball.

So because a low flaring ball tends to track over the same area constantly it will wear out more v high flaring balls. It makes sense but its hard to put into words..........
 
Heat is a factor in plasticiser migration. High flare balls track on clean surface at the back end, maximising friction and thus the heating of the ball surface.
 
george i understand which way you are coming from and i have agreed with you the whole time about what a high flaring ball is and what a low flaring ball is and how it rolls.

what i don't agree with it ebonites theory of platicizer being the main reason for why a ball dies, because a low flaring ball will die at relatively the same lifespan of a high flaring one, if not later.

reactive balls have lots of little 'holes' and when a ball is rolling over these holes constantly it over time closes them with friction, as well as the crap from the lane getting wedged into the ball; therefore cleaning can slow that death down.

what ebonite is saying is that has nothing to do with the death of the ball, they are saying the real reason is because of the migration of plasticizer from the inside of the shell to the outside. And what i am saying it the theory is a marketing ploy.

in reply to robbieB- and if your theory is correct why does a ball rejuvinate after going in a ball bake?

a ball going into a ball bake draws the crap out of the pores, and opens them up again, as well as taking the oil out of the active detergents in under the shell.

It has nothing to do with this plasticizer crap that ebonite is trying to throw at us.
 
tonx, whats inside your ball does not affect the performance, it can only be whats on the outside of your ball. Take the time to think about it, lets assume the ball is highly polished, than whats on the inside has great difficulty getting to the outside because the ball is effectively sealed, than why can this ball DIE.
I have first hand experience with a ball that died, because I work in a Pro-Shop I can utilise any number of products to clean up a ball. Now I had an Ebonite Wolf die, I tried re-surfacing,heat, polishing up than polishing down, all to no avail, so I bought a new ball, than the Hook-Again product came into the shop, so I tried it, WOW my old ball hooked more than my new ball.
The product works, but only if the ball has died, from the plastisizer migrating to the surface. There can be a number of other reasons that a ball looses it's hook, bad re-surface( ball not round afterwards ), using the wrong products on the ball, car polish with sillicon, acetone (will eventually make the surface brittle).
Reactive resin balls hook more because they have a wider footprint on the lane, thus creating more friction, they are in reality, softer than what is legally allowed, 72 hardness on the Rex Durometer, but are legal because the instrument to check for hardness does not penetrate the surface, thus they are deemed legal.
Now the Hook-Again product is nothing more than Kitty Litter, with a few added bits, similar product to oil-out used on the lanes when re-surfacing to soak up the oil in the wood, so it effectively does two jobs, oil soak and plastisizer absorbtion.
willey.
 
reactive balls have lots of little 'holes' and when a ball is rolling over these holes constantly it over time closes them with friction, as well as the crap from the lane getting wedged into the ball; therefore cleaning can slow that death down.

Im Sure George Didn't know that :eek:

robbie if heat is an issue with migration would using a rejuvinator or other forms of heating the ball speed this process
only reason i ask is you would probablly know
point being if you heat the ball will it die quicker
 
Here we go again....
I have gone through this in some detail on the alt.sport.bowling newsgroup, 4-5 years ago now. I'll Google up a link later, but for now - When I was working at Griffith uni, I baked some 'oil' out of an SD73 by sitting it on a plate in the sun. Did an analysis on a state of the art gas chromatograph/mass spec combo of the slop out of the ball and a sample of lane oil, and they were totally different chemically. Further, the slop matched the resin additives in a Columbia patent for a reactive coverstock.

What bleeds out is not oil. It is resin. It didn't even have detectable amounts of oil in it. :shock: Which surprised me, because up until then I thought the resin bleed story was garbage.

So, why? Resin balls are thermoset urethane, and continue to cure for (in some cases) years, very slightly shrinking as they do. This, plus the effect of surface heat (which accelerates the surface cure) and the continual pressure of the ball on the lane forces too much plasticiser to the surface of the ball. A VERY fine film is needed to enhance friction with dry lane - too much acts as lubricant. It is a shear effect. Remove the excess, fix the ball. All the hook again system does is do it really well. Well maintained balls that are washed and resurfaced regularly, last for many, many games more than poorly maintained gear, and are much easier to rejuvinate when necessary.
On resurfacing, more often is better, usually. A ball given a very light sand and repolish (for shiny stuff) every 2-3 months will outlast a ball that is used for a year then needs 120 grit to get the track out by 2 or 3 to 1 and perform better as well.

You CANNOT remove all the resin from a ball in anything like normal use. Resin coverstocks, according to the Columbia patent, are from 5% to 25% resin additive. Say 100 grams to half a kilo for a 15lb ball. That's a lot of resin to bleed out. - you'd need a hi-vacuum oven or a week in a dioxane bath (that did work, incidentally) to get that much out.

A hot bath, once a month, works wonders. Hot water, hot enough that you can barely stand to put your hands in, a good squirt of Dawn dishwashing liquid, let soak for 20 minutes, scrub the glop off under the water, let dry and polish. I have a seven year old sage quantum with the label just about worn off that still hooks as much as it did when I got it. I don't even bother covering up the thumb and finger holes, just let them drain afterwards, and I have never had a ball crack in the bath. YMMV.

FWIW, i think that the reduction in 'hit' (as opposed to 'hook') in older balls, could be due to microfracturing of the coverstock over time. No evidence either for or against, just the opinion of a polymer chemist (me). Need a microtome and a phase contrast microscope to find out - anyone got one handy? :)

The best polish I have ever found for reactive balls, BTW, is Brasso. (Edit - I mean for polishing on a spinner) Brilliant stuff. For particle balls, diatomaceous earth (swimming pool filter powder) on a sponge worked great on the few I have tried it with. It's slower than Trizact, but worked as well IMHO and is miles cheaper. Just use it as the last 'grit'.

One day I'll get a life. :)
 
Rob, well put together, there is a thread going at the moment on the Bowltech site, relating to this subject, do you visit this site?
What you have researched would be helpfull, as this site is viewed around the World, mainly with mechanics, but there are a few Pro-Shop operaters and Managers. This could help dispel a lot of the myths surrounding this subject.
willey.
 
robby your a champion
p.s are you still using your rubber gear
diatomaceous earth is what we use to get oil stains out of
our approach so i will try it
 
No need, don't bowl at Mt Gravatt any more. :lol: Actually my original manhatten is adorning the garden at the moment - one (or a few) too many resurfaces, not quite round any more. :(
Got another one, but I'm getting too old for 16lb gear. Besides, I found something that hooks even less - some japanese acrylic rock that duro's at 90+ 8) .

For the asb thread(s) a google groups search for sd73+oil+resin will show up the two relevant threads, one in mid 2001 and one in 2003. Or I could just post my bits here. The patent stuff is on this forum somewhere already, prob mid-late 2003?

Willey - which forum on bowltech is the hook again thread on? and will I need to join to post?

Cheers.
 
Thanks Graham,
Willey - can you maybe post a link to these threads on the Bowltech forum?
 
Robbie B, the Bowltech Site, has the Hook-Again under the Pro-Shop heading, I'm not that computer savvy to post the site here, http//www.bowltech.com/ this is the code.
You probably need to sign in, if you have'nt been to this site before, there are a lot of Australians registered there, that frequent the site, e.g; Androoo one of the moderators on this site.
willey.
 
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