Creating a league?

[Daniel Lester]

I'm looking at getting some ideas for a league...

Problem. There are so many different types of leagues out there, the choices just seem endless. So I thought I'd come here for some suggestions.

What are the reasons you bowl in the league you do?

What reason would make you join another league?

If you could make your league better, how would you do it?

Teams/Doubles/Singles?

Handicap system?

One idea I really like is to change the pattern each round. It will keep the good bowlers challenged and interested. And it gives new bowlers an insight as to how different patterns can really be.

Also poses the question as to what patterns to choose. ???

The other sort of things to know is stuff like prize funds vs number of games.

Would you rather bowl in a league of 5 games at a great rate? Or bowl in a league that has fewer games, same price, but much bigger payouts?

Any and all suggestions are most welcomed.

Thanks

 

[Daniel Lester]

50 views but no suggestions...

Anyone?

 

[Roysa]

Daniel... il indulge you.

It looks like you have all of the questions/idea's already. Issue is you really need the answers to your questions to come from the people who would be actually bowling in your league.

I suggest firstly you discuss with the Bowling Centre you are thinking of creating this league, get their thoughts on when they think they have an opportunity to fill a gap with a successful league. They maye even have an existing league that you might want to "revamp". The manager would be the best place to start, you'd need to discuss the game rates with them anyway.

Once you've got that sorted then you can start recruiting. Best way to get people interested is to make it good value. Good (high) prize funds arent necessarily good if everyone is paying lots every week. Some people just like to bowl for the fun of it believe it or not and arent in it for the $.

The most valuable tool you have is to ask existing bowlers what they want and do your best to please most of them, cos god knows you wont ever please everyone.

Good luck!

 

[Daniel Lester]

Brand new centre.

Brand new leagues.

Been given a completely clean sheet to work with. Just wanted some opinions on what might be successful. with endless posibilities it's hard to choose

 

[millsn]

Daniel,

The league I currently bowl in is a hdp league which pays out the usual high scratch and handicap, etc.

The different thing it does is pay 1st, 2nd, 3rd then the rest of the prize fund it spread to everyone via the number of times they bowl their average. At the end of the season the total number of averages bowled is divided into the prize fund amount. This may work out to be $2.12 a share then you get this amount times the number of times you bowled average or over. The share value does vary every year but it keeps people honest has sand bagging hurts the hip pocket and everyone gets something.

 

[Daniel Lester]

Thanks

That's the sort of thing I'm looking for. Thanks.

All other ideas or answers to questions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks everyone

 

[Ash]

I've seen leagues that pay out every round, rather than holding the prizes for the whole league, plus an overall prize as well, which seemed like a good idea to me.

I like the idea of switching patterns, but you have to find enough bowlers that actually want a chanllenge, which has proven difficult in Australia so far (at least in NSW anyhoo)

I would go bigger than triples though, at least then you can get a good amount of teams.

Best of luck though, very good idea reaching out to find out what people want, it's the best way to run a league.

 

[Roysa]

New centre... that changes some things...

even more reason to make it good bargain to rope in as many people as possible.

I agree that a pattern league is a good idea but if this is the first time some people have bowled (presume it is in a new area) then maybe the sports pattern league might be wasted on people who are just there for a throw?

See what the centre is willing to throw in if anything, i was in a recent league where the high game for the week bowled free the next week and only the prizefund had to be paid.

You are right, the options are endless, let us know what you decide on.

 

[Daniel Lester]

I've been doing some research. (well trying to)

I've had a look at every local centre in the area to see...

* Which leagues are full.
* What people are charging for leagues.
* How the competition may look.
* Basically what's out there, in order to provide maybe, something new.*

A few successfully run leagues that I've noticed are singles leagues.

The centre has asked me to set this up as the premier league for the centre, so I am trying to target higher average bowlers, and those others wishing for a challenge. If we do decide to go with a singles league, I like the thought of a handicapped and scratch payout at seasons end.

We are already established in an area where we should be able to attract a very nice amount and variety of bowlers.

Doing this research has brought up some other questions however.*

How long is too long/not long enough for a season. I'm toying with the idea of 4 rounds of 10 weeks or maybe 5 rounds of 8 weeks. I feel as though 40 seems to be a decent number. However if the league is as big as we are hoping this may change.

I guess a seasons length is more often or not based upon the number of teams/bowlers.*

Thanks to the replies so far guys, bouncing all this stuff around is really helping. The more the better.

 

[Roysa]

A short quick answer. 40 weeks is too long for a league in my opinion. Interested to hear wat others think about this.

 

[Ash]

My doubles league that I bowl in goes with the calendar.

we bowl basically from february (or late Jan) through to early december, breaking for school holidays, and having a nice long off season (usually around 6-8 weeks) which really actually is very nice, as you get a nice long break to sort out any niggling injuries, plus the league pays out just in time for Christmas shopping...

it does make for a long season, that's true, but it's nice and clean, starts and finishes in the same calendar year, which I really like.

Although most leagues wouldn't go beyond say 36 weeks....

 

[Daniel Lester]

Reasoning for 40.

Just figured needed a minimum of 4 rounds to show a decent variety of oil patterns, and around 10 weeks per round, to figure out, get used to, and have some real game time per pattern.

9 weeks would work. Makes it 36 total, I think I might have just liked the round number.

 

[bluey]

One of the more successful leagues down here is International Doubles at Dandenong which has a waiting list and runs for 48 weeks with 2 teams per lane. (8 players to a pair) We have a good 4 man league at Boronia that has 2 seasons per year. The break over Xmas is good with a fresh start in the new year. Your idea of running 40 weeks means you have a very long break or bowl through into the new year with different calender starts after each season, just something to consider.

 

[Daniel Lester]

Oh right.

Hadn't really considered that. Never really thought of it as a problem I guess. Will a break over Christmas and the new year really matter?

The centre really wants to get things up and running maybe the first season can be 6 rounds of 7. 3 rounds for this year, 3 commencing next year. Although 4 lots of 10 can just be broken into 2 this year 2 starting next year.

Some other things I've been considering is prize fund vs total games.

I like the idea of 5 games, it's somewhere between a mini tourney and league. But the higher total game rate would eat in to prize fund.

Does a bigger payout at an overall cheaper rate with say, 4 games, seem like a better idea? Or a big league sounds enticing?

 

[Ash]

You wouldn't nessesarily need a big 12 week break between seasons, you could have breaks throught the year (i.e. school holidays) to help flesh out the year.

I like the idea of a 5 game league, but that's a long time to be in a centre for league. My league is a 4 game league and that's more then long enough for me... it usually takes us on average 2 - 2.5 hours to bowl 4 games (doubles league with 12 teams) and really you don't want to be bowling any longer than that, but I have to say I do like the idea of 5 games though, especially if you're talking sport (like) patterns, it would help you develop the beaking down lane patterns aspect of your game. You could really learn to break down a pattern the way you want in 5 games... could easily make the toughest sport pattern relatively playable by the 4th or 5th game...

Although, to runa 5 game league (lets assume a $5 game rate, which is pretty generous these days) you're looking at a base fee of $25 per bowler, then you need to add for prizefund, lets say you make it $40, you have $15 per week for 40 weeks, that's $600 prizefund per bowler, lets say, 15 teams of 3, that's a $36,000 total prize fund, not too bad really... but then a lot of people tend to baulk at paying $40 for league, but if you're offering 5 games, on sport patterns, that's pretty decent value.

How to split that money, that's a whole other thing...

 

[Daniel Lester]

That's been precisely my thinking.

The centre should be big enough to accomodate a 5 game league. I guess we'd be looking at 4 to 6 people per pair. My reasoning behind 5 is due to a few things.

*As far as I know, there isn't too much around like it.
*It's somewhere between league and a tourney.
*It provides those bowlers who can only make it once a week with something more. 3 games never seemed like enough, and 4, just filled the gap. Let's try 5 and see where it goes.

And yes, you are more than correct about the breakdown of prizefund. I am still in negotiations with the centre about game rate. I'll be ove the moon if I can get it down to 5. as it stands it's around 6. But if the league gets big enough, with all the enticement the league could possibly provide, that may convince the centre that it's overall income is higher, despite a slightly low lineage.

As for the breakdown of the prize fund, once the incidentals are worked out, this will be the first prizefund I will have had to run. Does anyone have any suggestions on how this should really be done.*

I understand that it would be nice to pay out first to last, and most leagues I've been associated with have this in common, however, such a wide spread, cuts down the payouts too much and does it make it worth it for the weekly price?

Finally, for tonight at least, one more question (Well series of questions). Sponsors? How hard are they to come by? What sort of things can we do to entice them? Or are social funds enough for total payouts?

Thanks again everyone for all you help. love the responses. I'm really starting to get some good ideas on what we can run.

 

[WAC4504]

Hey Daniel, around here we run 33 week leagues. It's broken down into 4 quarters 8 weeks long and the 33rd week is a tournament. The way it works is, each quarter the eighth week is position round to determine the quarter winner, each team that wins a quarter makes extra money at the end of the season. On the last week the four quarter winners roll off to see who is the league champions, and they make a little extra for that. The last night also is a 2 game tournament where the fees for that night only are used as the prize fund, all teams including the roll off teams participate. The last night we also have what we call " pick-a- partner " which is where you can choose as many partners as you want to double with by using the score of your 2 games plus handy cap, each team throws 2$ in the pot and it pays out like maybe 1 in 6. As far as what kind of patterns to use I would suggest heavy oil patterns even if it cost moor, and just advertise for the best of the best. We have a league like that here in Memphis, and it packs the house, 38 teams in a 40 lane house, and it's one of the most expensive leagues as well. Good luck.

 

[Fitzy]

I personally like the format we have at Logan of Wed night.

6 bowler match play (3 per lane), 6 points for win going down to 1 point for last.
Separate scratch and handicap league tables.

48 week broken into 4 * 12 week patterns on selected sport conditions.



If I may ask, where's the centre in question??

 

[luko]

only new centre in qld is robina has to be there....


good luck getting people to pay $5-$6 a game for a money league.
especially the high ave bowlers. they don't like showing up paying a fortune to bowl on sports patterns. when they ave 220 on a house shot then come to league and shoot 150's for 5 games you want? then you will have half the league walk out in the first 5 weeks!

not to mention pre bowling, unless the centre is prepared to lay the pattern down for bowlers to pre bowl on out of league play you will get them shoot telephone numbers on the house pattern which people have to try beat on a hard sports pattern. then you will not stop hearing about that.

if your expecting big numbers you will have to go match play cause if you go over 40 bowlers in singles you wont be able to play everyone in the rounds and then they will complain that some one had a hard draw and some one else didn't.

you have obviously got a job at this centreand are trying to recruit bowlers mid season i dont like your chances of getting lots for this year. bowlers are like workers though they follow the money! if they are unhappy they just simply leave!


good luck with the recruiting drive.





cheers luko

 

[Booby]

I Believe it is the new AMF Centre At Robina good luck.........