2 handed questions (inc. img oil tracks)

S

slayer

New Member
Hi,

Well so far my 2 handed bowling is coming along okay... but i have a few questions below:

1 - not sure whether it is my technique or just that i am new to bowling and i am still conditioning my body... but the last time i went i played 3 games and now my right bicep is killing me! started hurting towards the end of the game and made it hard to concentrate on technique... today it is hard for me to extend my arm fully without discomfort

if its just part in parcel of conditioning then thats fine but thought it might mean something is off with my technique???

2 - i am pretty consistently hooking the ball now... usually bowl across the arrow to the right of centre... out to about the 2nd or 3rd board and then back into the right hand pocket... according to the speed at the village it says i am bowling at around 22-23km/hr... but looking at my oil markings on the bowl i think it is on the wrong angle (based on reading i have done - read that it should be on a similar angle to the line between index and thumb)... this is the first drilling i have had done and it was originally drilled for a beginner 1 hander because i had intended bowling 1 handed at that point...

i have included a diagram of the markings and drilling config....

any advice or opinions is muchly appreciated :)
 

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By the sounds of it, your arm is hurting because you're trying to use too much force to lift the ball.

This excessive force is why your track results closer to the finger holes than the thumb hole. Or so I'm lead to believe.
Try relaxing more. You want to extend your right arm out, 2 handed still has the same fundamentals. In this case, relax your shot, follow through, & your power will develop at the bottom of your swing, the more consistant & comfortable you become with your shot.

Would I be right in saying you leave weird & wonderful splits / leaves ?
 
spot on about the splits/leaves! was frustrating cos it seemed to hook in so nicely and then it was rare that it actually striked....
 
I believe that these splits & leaves are more than likely caused due to a mixture of your axis tilt (would be almost horizontal to inverted in relation to the lane surface? I could be wrong) & the fact that your ball is probably rolling out very quickly -- due to the massive amount of revolutions + medium speed of your shot, the ball type and the lane surface.

The best 'roll' for a ball is said to be a semi-roller. This track resides closer to the thumb hole, & further from the finger holes, & results in the best pin carry due to a mixture of its vertical + horizontal rotation. By the looks of your track, you may be getting a reasonably horizontal axis tilt, which tends to uhh.. push the pins backwards instead of mixing them. Crankers usually get this type of track due to their massive amount of force they put on the ball.
What you want to try to do is still get this amount of work, but with a higher axis tilt, which should result in a semi roller track. This is still possible, but just takes a god awful amount of practice. (but what doesn't?) An easier way is to sacrifice those revolutions for accuracy. You'd be surprised how well you will carry pins if you choose the right line, relax your swing, & hit your target at 300 rpm instead of 600. Power will come with practice.

Another explanation could be that your ball is rolling out too early before it hits the pins. A ball hooks for two reasons. Firstly, it hits a dry part of the lane (or drier part) & secondly, the ball loses its energy. When the ball loses energy, the pins don't 'crack' as much, they tend to feel like rubber I guess. Your ball also deflects off the pins instead of driving through them, which leaves something very artistic.
I could be wrong when i say this, but I believe what you want to try to do is find a line where your ball rolls into the pocket, instead of straightening out & hitting it. Think of it curving into the pocket instead of hitting that dry edge, & going straight & hard for it.
I also don't know what type of ball that is, it may very well be a skid-flip ball (Though I doubt it due to the somewhat label drilling + thumb weight)

Hope I helped, but don't take what I say as 100% correct, I'm still learning a lot (it seems) as well, & just passing what I have been taught as a junior. *thumb up*
 
cool! cheers for the advice Troyza!

i too am just beginning so any advice is good as far as i am concerned... it gives me more aspects to look at and investigate :)

here is a link to my bowl - http://www.hammerbowling.com/products/balls/detail.php?PRKey=49

i noticed that the drilling configs they suggest are a bit different to mine... could it be responding and spinning on that axis due to the drilling layout not being suited to a higher rev rate?
 
Not really, a drilling layout doesn't physically effect your axis tilt. It affects the hooking characteristics of the ball, but no one can really go wrong with label drilling. Most of my gear is label drilled with either thumb or finger weight, & usually a half ounce positive side weight (I believe side weight helps with pushing power through the pins, not too sure)
On the website, those few diagrams are the same type of drilling, just for different releases (hence why the track is different on each) Because the pin has to be drilled in relation to your PAP (positive axis point) & your release determines your PAP.
However, people can drill a ball in such a pattern that the track will 'miss' their holes as it bow-ties. (those extra lines of oil you see on your ball is your ball turning & 'flaring' as it goes down the lane.)

I noticed you said in the other topic you think you may be releasing the ball with your arm bent. You may find that if you try extending your arm out straight at your target & letting the ball roll off your fingers (as well as following through obviously), you can keep some of that power whilst getting a decent roll on your ball, & becoming more accurate. It will also help you figure out timing issues, as you will be able to feel that 'sweet spot' some people get when they release the ball, & should stop your arm from hurting. I bet it will feel weird to begin with, but the results should pay off pretty soon.
 
okay cheers!

im just not clear on the drilling side of things... so do you think based on the oil marks,etc... that the drilling could be not suited to a 2 handed with my revs etc... and making the ball react weird?

or is it still possible that it is my technique that is causing it?

or is it too hard to tell at this point?
 
I would expect it to be your technique rather than the ball drilling -- lots of variables come in to play when ball drilling is brought into the equation. You shouldn't have to worry about ball drillings until you start buying different balls for different conditions, your ball driller should be able to figure out an appropriate drilling for your style, & what you want the ball to do, but it won't effect your axis tilt.
 
went bowling today and tried to adjust my technique slightly... this time the oil pattern was on a similar angle but the point where the oil lines meet was next to the middle finger hole... was bowling a lot more consistently and smoother... sending the ball from the left over to the 2nd board and then back into the pocket... i was only bowling around 20km/hr... but the ball was smashing the pins... was hitting quite a lot of strikes! what let my game down was that some would slide too far and go into the gutter and then i would hit the strike on my spare!!

what is the bad thing about rolling it on that angle??

with 2handed bowling if your hand is further around the ball before release and you are generating alot more revs, which comes from the fingers, then i dont understand how to avoid it spinning closer to the fingers???

gonna take a video camera with me next time :)
 
I have noticed as well with my shot that sometimes the ball will slide to much. For me it's generally my hand position through the shot to the point of release. the more i come up the back of the ball, the solider my shot ends up being and most of the time i will hit my target sweetly. If for some reason i move my left hand away from the ball to early, i often come around the side of the ball, which makes it skid, plus i'm no where near where i was aiming. This obviously has to do with timing.
On to your release with your bicep. I'm not sure about you, but on my backswing, i have my right arm bent, so the ball moves back, with my left hand taking most of the weight of the ball. I then start to straighten my arm as i start to push through the shot, so by the time i'm releasing the ball, my arm is straight. I'm sure your's would be similar in a way, as i find it very difficult for some one to bowl 2 handed with both of there arms straight. It also takes a while for the muscles in your body to get used to bowling 2 handed. When i first started it took a good 2 or 3 months for my back to settle down for it. As of now, pretty much every muscle in my body is still sore cause i was competing at the junior nationals the last 2 weeks. My only theory to fixing this problem is to do light weights, with a lot of reps, just to build up endurance. That should speed up the time as well for the muscles to heal.
As for the track on your ball, don't bother trying to ask me bout that. Leave that to Troy, he knows more about it then i do lol.;)
 
Slayer, nothing is particularly wrong with the roll, people just get a lot better carry with a semi roll compared to a cranker roll. I'm glad you sorted your self out though. I'm hardly one to coach. =P

Thanks, ben.
 
The 'skidding off the lane occasionally' is just playing the wrong part of the lane, maybe missing target by a board or two (and sometimes thats all it takes!). Don't worry too much about that, your targeting will improve with time.

As for the track being close to your fingers and getting it in a different spot, that's all ball drilling. A change in side weight or thumb weight would move that track just slightly. I wouldn't worry about it too much though, the ball rolling over fingers makes very little difference, if any at all, to the end result of the shot. If the ball was rolling over the thumb, that would be a cause for concern.

One would be best concentrating on consistency, targeting and release before looking at any changes to ball drilling, etc.
 
You're absolutely right mate....

By the way, that's a great site you've found there.

Have fun on Saturday morning!
 
Slayer,

Being a two-hander myself I can tell you that the oil rings you're getting that resemble a cranker's ball flare is normal simply because the two-handed style is pretty much a modified cranker. The only difference is that you get the same result with less effort compared to our single-handed counterparts. ;)

With the swing, the left hand carries almost all the weight of the ball (you might have already known that lol) and on the backswing, you have to bend your right arm but keep it relaxed, so the ball moves back with ease (think of the shape of a chicken wing). On the downswing, start to straighten your arm as you start to push through the shot, so by the time you're nearly releasing the ball, your arm is already straight. Another helpful tip is hold the ball higher. So, if you hold the ball at waist height, then raise it up close to chest height.

As for your ball layout, the best thing you can do is talk to the ball driller and at your centre.

emmtee83 said:
The 'skidding off the lane occasionally' is just playing the wrong part of the lane, maybe missing target by a board or two (and sometimes thats all it takes!). Don't worry too much about that, your targeting will improve with time.
Click to expand...

I have the same problem.... it's especially a pain in the butt when you're playing on dry, broken down lanes and only have balls for fresh lanes with strong drillings. :mad:
 
Zoidberg said:
start to straighten your arm as you start to push through the shot
Click to expand...
If you straighten your arm, you will force the ball through your downswing (comes from locking your arm up), and if you push/force the ball through your downswing, you could possibly lose speed and genuine revs.

The best thing to do is to cradle the ball onto the lane, careful not to pull your arm too far up in your (up)swing, will result in dragging your elbow behind your body and send your downswing in a different direction. Let the weight of the ball create all your speed, try to nail the sweet spot in the release and follow through.

Easier to say then do, yeah I know.....
 
Cool! Cheers!

Zoidberg said:
Slayer,
I have the same problem.... it's especially a pain in the butt when you're playing on dry, broken down lanes and only have balls for fresh lanes with strong drillings. :mad:
Click to expand...

Tell me about it... i have only just started... so i only have 1 ball so far! .... ummm another lane please :)
 
emmtee83 said:
If you straighten your arm, you will force the ball through your downswing (comes from locking your arm up), and if you push/force the ball through your downswing, you could possibly lose speed and genuine revs.

The best thing to do is to cradle the ball onto the lane, careful not to pull your arm too far up in your (up)swing, will result in dragging your elbow behind your body and send your downswing in a different direction. Let the weight of the ball create all your speed, try to nail the sweet spot in the release and follow through.

Easier to say then do, yeah I know.....
Click to expand...

Thanks! That does solve the mystery why my speed is low and why I keep missing left.


slayer said:
Cool! Cheers!

Tell me about it... i have only just started... so i only have 1 ball so far! .... ummm another lane please :)
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if you're a Hammer fan or not but getting a weaker ball such as a Brunswick Power Groove, Columbia Scout or Storm's Tropical Storm for dry conditions. If you want to stick with Hammer, try getting your hands on a Hammer Cherry Vibe.

Also, here's a link to Osku Palermaa's website where you can see videos of him bowl so you can get a better idea of the two-handed delivery (don't forget to change the language to English or you'll get lost because it's in Finnish lol). - http://www.oskupalermaa.fi/
 
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