Walter De Veer 2005

[The Spanner]

The new rules and regulations for the Walter De Veer tournament have been posted on the TBA website.

They have changed the avg's back to 184 for men and 174 for ladies .... YAHOO !!!!

Some interesting reading on the handicaps too ...

Spanner.

 

[Andrew S.]

Yes - good move TBA. Especially the idea of the All Events scores forming the tournament averages.

 

[Sydpies]

Yes very good for WDV bowlers. At least now the States should have plenty of bowlers trying out for WDV next year. Hopefully we will see them all at Illawarra next year. This should also help the states who had trouble getting bowlers to try out for WDV.

Of course all this will be useless if the State committee's don't get behind WDV and push it as a stepping stone to Rachuig.

So all you WDV bowlers out there in Bowling Land , now is the time to get off your back sides and help promote this event with your State Associations, because the more bowlers try out the better the competition becomes. And hopefully we will see some new Rachuig bowlers in years to come.

When Daryl Holt set this Idea in motion years ago, it was on the basis of it being a stepping stone for future Rachuig Bowlers. That happened initially, but because the averages were dropped it became just another "B" tournament. Now it will become an "A" grade event and rightly so. We need to encourage as many bowlers to participate as possible, this will help with fund raising and will benefit the team with cheaper fees.

Anyway Congrats to TBA for being forward in their thinking and lets hope that the bowlers who this event was designed for will come out in force and embrace it. Time will tell.............

 

[The Spanner]

Yes - good move TBA. Especially the idea of the All Events scores forming the tournament averages.

I agree Andrew ..

Your average used for WDV will be the highest of either

1. Your entering average.
2. Your roll off average or
3. Your average for all events at the nationals.

I think this will make De Veer very even and competitive. Can't wait to get back into it.

Spanner.

 

[Its me]

Sydpies wrote

When Daryl Holt set this Idea in motion years ago, it was on the basis of it being a stepping stone for future Rachuig Bowlers. That happened initially, but because the averages were dropped it became just another "B" tournament. Now it will become an "A" grade event and rightly so

Not sure I understand your meaning here. It will always be just a B tournament when it is handicapped. The only way to make it an A tournament as you put it will be to cap the average at A grade and bowl scratch.

 

[Sydpies]

The whole Idea was to encourage more bowlers to participate. By scrapping the HCP's hardly anyone would bowl. At least now anyone with an average of 184 or under has a chance of making their state team.

 

[grumpie]

Its Me
The idea of WDV is to encourage bowlers to improve there game to a higher standard. Without a tournament like this there would be no gain in experence for bowlers. No experence means no development of the 180 average bowler or evan the 160 average bowler. You must encourage these bowlers to do better or they get bored and leave the sport because there is nowhere for them to go.It must be a handicap tournament so the 180 & 160 ave bowler are on a level playing field.Without Developing these bowlers there is no future in years to come for Rachuig.
A large amount of open tournament bowlers have either tried out for WDV or made the team,these people are the ones that make up your open tournament fields.Several have made Rachuig over the past few years.
I'll give you one instance and this is only one of many,this bowler made WDV with a high 150 ave the first time, made it a second time with a 170 ave, now this person tries out for Rachuig every year and bowls in most open tournaments.
So to finish yes WDV must be handicaped to make people compete, remember WDV is there to encourage bowlers or there is no future in bowling & it is an A grade event, to get people into open events!!

 

[Hawka]

Well done TBA, Im glad to see that one of the ideas that i put forward in the post of how do we fix WDV using your All Events ave is being used as this means that the TBA are hearing what bowlers would like to see happen . Providing my ave allows i will be trying out next year.

 

[kahlua_666]

Hi All, :multi: :multi: :multi:

Well the gangs all here and lets hope we are now on a winner.

It is pleasing to see that we can have a say and be heard.

After all our hard fought efforts it has been worth it. It took a lot of time and effort by alot of people who thought it was worth fighting for.

I thank you all.

Cheers
Pam T.

 

[Andrew S.]

I have to admit the timing of this announcement was brilliant.
Just 2 days after an astronomical increase in Centre registration fees.

 

[The Spanner]

Sorry Andrew ..

Call me dumb (go on ... call me dumb), but I don't get the connection with registration fees and new De Veer rules and regualtions.

Spanner.

 

[Andrew S.]

You're not dumb - most people are not aware of the new registration fees yet. The increase means that in most centres the game rate will increase by more than the usual New Year amount.
Which means a lot of people will be unhappy.
TBA however have found a way to deflect attention from the increase by announcing the De Veer changes.
The ironic part is that the increases were approved by the ABPA. So if your Centre manager complains about this increase it was his own representative who voted it in.

 

[Sydpies]

Andrew like usual you are not being fair with regards to your comments. The WDV announcement was made because it had been finalised between the officials who were meeting last Monday.Which I might add is one of several meetings that TBA have had in recents months to come up with a workable solutions.

As for registration fees it is the TBA Trust that will make the final decision on increases with regards to Registration fees etc. So if you are going to have a go at someone have a go at the correct people. In this case the TBA Trust.......

Of course it is no surprise that you can not give credit where it is due. Finally we are getting things in place for WDV and it should help a lot more bowlers to get involved and have a go.

What we need now is a lot more positives from the bowling industry and less negatives.

 

[Andrew S.]

Not being fair Sydpies?
Did you read what I posted?
I'm totally in favour of the new rules. I'm simply suggesting that TBA took advantage of a very favourable announcement to deflect criticism regarding an unfavourable price rise.
As for your comment that the trust will make the final decision on any pay rise, if that is the case then why have the invoices already gone out?
If you want to get into a discussion regarding positives in the bowling industry, bring it on.
I think you might just discover that the present membership structure of tenpin bowling in Australia is hopelessly inadequate. So before you start blindly defending the indefensible, take a look at the real world and get your facts straight.

 

[Sydpies]

why do you think that the membership at the moment is not right.???
Maybe the bowlers or the centres are to blame themselves. there are several centers I know of in Melbourne who have collected registration fees from every bowler in their centre. Some centres just pay the Lane Levy and not worry with players registration.

Should not every bowler be prepared to pay a registration fee to the National Body. I think so. WE need a National Body otherwise we will not have a sport of Tenpins.

In every other sport that is played as a regular competitive structure, you as a player must pay a REGISTRATION FEE before you can compete. We don't in fact we have so many bowlers not paying any fees at all. If every bowler in Australia paid the Rego Fees, TBA would have to increase the registration fees. As for the invoices send out, I am led to believe that there is nothing in concrete as quite a few centres around Australia have suggested that fees stay the same as previous years. We are now waiting on several bodies to sort this out. Namely ABPA, Goldpin and I am not too sure with regards to AMF.

It is too bad that TBA wont reply to this site as they feel that there are too many stirrers and not enough dooers.

Oh well the next few months should be interesting, with all these changes happening within the industry........

 

[Andrew S.]

The membership is not right because once the Centre has paid its invoice to TBA for lane registration that is an end to the matter.
The Centre or the Centre Assoc recovers the money from its existing members.
Any new members coming in later in the year will probably still pay a bowler registration fee (to either the bowl or the Local Assoc) however not one dollar of that money will go to the National body.
That is where the system falls down.
In addition to that not one dollar goes to the State organisations to run any bowler programs.
This can't be right. There should be a nominal registration fee for every Bowling Centre and also a membership fee for every individual member. The way it's set up at present there is a huge advantage to a small Centre with a large membership. Any large Centres with small memberships are at a distinct disadvantage because of the present costing structure.

 

[Sydpies]

Yes Andrew I have to agree with you on your last post. However while the centres have to pay a lane levy we will never have a fair system. Registration fees should be based on bowlers bowling in that centre.
So if you have 200 bowlers then you pay your levy based on that number.Regardless of how many lanes you have. If your one of those lucky centres who have 1000 plus league bowlers then you would pay your levy on those numbers. I can not see it being any fairer then that.

At present you could have a 20 lane centre and pay thousands of Dollars in Lane Levy Fees and yet have only a couple hundred league bowlers. So how is that fair to the owners of that centre. Granted that centre might have a high social bowler participation and charge a higher game rate. But we are supposed to concentrate on League bowlers for Registration fees.

It seems that to collect registration fees on a per bowler per centre outlet is in the too hard basket.........
Maybe we should be looking at other sports and see how they control it.Like indoor cricket , netball etc. I know if you dont pay your registration fee you dont play.

 

[Andrew S.]

Agreed.

 

[Black Duck]

Yes, good work TBAL With getting WDV back to a sensible format, but again what about the bowlers who are too good to sand bag and not good enough to bowl Rachuig.

The 184 to 200 average bowlers have nothing to aspire to, yes there will be cries of try out for Rachiug and the answer every year is most states know their Rachuig team before the roll off.

If your not bowling grand prix events or playing high level tournaments you do not have a chance

Everyone says that WDV is stepping stone to improve bowlers to aspire to Rachuig, but I would challenge someone to do the stats on how many WDV bowlers have moved up into the Rachuig ranks, yes the percentage is pretty low.

Why do the same WDV bowlers turn up year after year, because it suits them, it is their opportunity to represent their state at a level of bowling they feel comfortable in and good luck to them !

I would just like an opportunity to represent my state at level I can feel comfortable with, instead I will just sit and watch bowlers who are capable of bowling at the same level as myself punch the air when they win there match with a 250 game with handicap and feel proud of it !!

That's my whinge I'm off to the bowl to try and drop my average for next years WDV, maybe some of the experts out there can advise me how to drop from a 195 average to 175 or so in quick time, bye now !!

 

[Andrew S.]

What a lot of us appear to have missed in the new rules & regs for De Veer is that the requirement for a Level 2 Coach appears to have been dropped.