Unaccredited Coaches

[nev25]

All very valid points thanks all

But I pose the question
Why do Coaches spend money on becoming accredited coaches when it seems any Tom Dick or Harry can do it??

Also those that are coaching unaccredited without any formal training how do they know what they are Coaching is right??
Could they be doing more Harm then good?

(Ive seen many bowlers throw the SPORT in because of bad coaching)

As I said not criticizing just asking

I would just like to throw out a question or two and see what response I get regarding people coaching that have no coaching accreditations

 

[JWhitty]

Why do you spend the money becoming accredited? Two reasons;
1. You want to learn, or
2. You want to coach at a competitive level

And those that are coaching without formal training don't know that they are right, in fact it's safe to say most don't have it 100%. Like any job though, if you do it well and deliver results, people will pay the money. I am in IT, I'm a contractor, there's a lot of dollars on offer. I didn't even finish high school, but I know my field and clients will pay to get my services. If I screw it up, they'll go find someone else. The same applies.

 

[John_Velo]

I think both George and Jason are hitting a point that is very valid and a part of bowling I spend a lot of time trying to understand. That being, in George's case that the level of detail and technology understanding simply can't be learnt at a clinic. It's a life long experience and experimentation that has taken George to the levels he has achieved.

Again back to the very point, once the fundamentals are understood and the bowler has all of the foundation work down packed from the level one caoch. You are then looking at the finer technical details that make the difference between being good and great.

As an off shoot to that thought, you often hear people ask why Mark Webber is still in Formula 1 with other younger drivers that could step up and take his seat. Team owners give the same response which is, "few drivers can give the technical detail and understanding of the car like Mark can, which makes the team smarter and faster."

Bowling can be the same when the wrong drilling of the same ball can make a difference between strike or split. It is level of detail that needs to be reached to reach your goals.

A bowlers natural talent will only go so far. Then the equipment makes the difference and the equipment needs to match the bowler and talent, which is where the understanding of the Batson, Doust and Frilingos group stand out.

Thanks for reading my mid-night thoughts.

 

[magpi17]

Good Thread this so far,
I can see where George is coming from and if he or quite a few others gave me advice or indeed I sought advice from them I would certainly take it, I am a bowler that even tho I have been bowling for a while I have quite a few areas of problem, consistency, approach style and I could do with some coaching, but it is very hard to get it at Taree.
If I were better at the basics and this is where an accredited coach could and would help then I could progress to seeking the levels of play that maybe George and his peers could help me with.
I play in Tournaments, I don't expect much, I bowl to enjoy but I have recieved some great advice from the guy's especially now as I have been doing it for a while (they might be starting to feel sorry for me) but I would certainly be entertainment for a coach!
My goal is to make a cut, simple eh!
Trouble will be when I make 1 I will celebrate that hard the next day will be painful!!!!

 

[Ash]

I'm gonna weigh in, Interesting thread with some very good points on both sides.

Just to clarify up front, I am a TBA Level 1 Accredited coach (for now at least, gonna run out very soon)

But I pose the question
Why do Coaches spend money on becoming accredited coaches when it seems any Tom Dick or Harry can do it??

Simple fact is, they do it because people like to see the little tag around your neck saying you're a coach. The insurance, etc. is good too, but really when all is said and done, it's a piece of paper. I'm not knocking being an accredited coach, far from it (as I said, I am one, and would re-up too if I had my log book done, which I didn't). If you want to do the course and get your creds, then more power to you, but my answer to the quote above, is any Tom, Dick or Harry can BE an accredited coach, all it takes is a few days and some $$.

Here's my question, does having a coaching accreditation automatically make you a good coach? My answer is no, it really doesn't. I'll bet my house that there are people out there with coaching credentials that couldn't coach with a gun to their head. sure, they did the course, they know what the paperwork says and all that, but actually imparting that knowledge to another person? That you can't really learn from a book.

One more question to chew on, If you were an accredited coach, but your accreditation lapses, does that mean that you are now unable to coach? Did the knowledge you magically gain from the coaching ticket expire when the ticket did?

I know I sound anti Accreditation right now, but I'm not, I actually really enjoyed the coaching course, and learned more about my own game doing it, I also see the value in having an accreditation, although, if a coach works for you, and knows their stuff, and can relate that to you in a way you can understand, having a piece of paper (or not having it), isn't going to change that.

 

[Casual Observer]

100% agree with George. (yes I typed that)

This is almost a joke thread. A piece of paper means nothing. You can't learn bowling in a weekend, you can't learn bowling in a few weeks, yet anyone can do the course and get accredited.

At the end of the day if you help someone then you help the sport. If you try and discourage the help and put barriers in the way then you harm the sport.

 

[steve s]

Well said George someone of your knowledge of the game is a very vauable tool for people to come to for advice. I am a level 1 coach but i am sure if i was living in Queensland
and near you or bowled in your centre i would be asking you for advice on my game.. Keep doing wat you are doing i am sure bowlers you are helping are very gratefull. And i am
sure if we meet up in a tournament some time in the future and time permits i will ask you to have a look at my game for some pointers.

 

[nev25]

but my answer to the quote above, is any Tom, Dick or Harry can BE an accredited coach, all it takes is a few days and some $$.

Thats not exactly what I meant
I meant If anyone can coach why do we need a accreditation


But seeing as you mentioned it
When I did my Course there was a number of Exams/Tests
And on the on lane days/Weekend we where assessed
I'm sure you where too
If the assessor thought you didn't know your stuff or you failed the exams I'm sure you wouldn't have been accredited

One more question to chew on, If you were an accredited coach, but your accreditation lapses, does that mean that you are now unable to coach? Did the knowledge you magically gain from the coaching ticket expire when the ticket did?

No but as I originally asked

What does a coaching accreditation mean??

Should Unaccredited coaches be allowed to coach
If so why go though the reaccreditaion process (which was nothing more that paying something like $70 and filling out a form and sending it in with a new passport photo and submit a logbook proving coaching activity)

And should someone instructing someone that is not an accredited coach be stopped?

This is almost a joke thread.

Sorry I fail to see anything funny
Please enlighten us??

A piece of paper means nothing

Then why is it there

You can't learn bowling in a weekend, you can't learn bowling in a few weeks, yet anyone can do the course and get accredited.
.

No you can't but we are talking about becoming a coach not a bowler
If you care to read the OP I'm asking about unaccredited coaching
And In fact I have know people to fail and not get accredited

Also you can pretty much get a coaching accreditation in any sport just by doing a weekend course (with homework)
Walk into Albert Park Sports stadium on a given Sunday and walk out as a Badminton coach (assuming you pass)
Go To cricket Australia's web-page and do the coaching course on-line then do a one day course pass and you are an Accredited Cricket coach

Its the way it is

Hey I'm not talking coaching the elite here just league level down
(Which is all what Level one coaches are only supposed to coach
To obtain Level 2 you have to have some experience in coaching (Min 12 months in our case))

You do the courses to learn to deliver and teach the correct drills as set out by the governing body (or national coach in our case)

As Ive said Ive seen many bowlers throw in the sport because of incorrect coaching

One that springs to mind is a 14 yo kid struggling in an Adult league
One experience Bowler told him to break his wrist while releasing the ball
I jumped in and said you shouldn't Don't break your wrist at all
The So called expert argued with me that you have too to get a clean release
The kid tried it and put the next 5 balls in the gutter
He hasn't bowled since

Another one is an experienced female argued with a coach of 20 years that he is teaching kids wrong
The arrows are for picking up different pins
While this could be true for an experience bowler
We are taught to instruct beginners to bowl over 2nd arrow
Only one thing to concentrate on
Give them too many options they get confused
Bowling over different arrows confuses the beginner
Get confused they get frustrated
Get frustrated and roll a bad shot
Then chuck the sport in

Yes that was in the sports Psychology section of the Coaching course
But only someone that has done the course would know that

 

[Andrew S.]

I was under the impression that Level 1 was an open book exam. Is this still the case?
If so how can you possibly fail?
I would also add that in over 50 years of bowling I have seen many people give the sport away but not one of them has blamed poor or bad coaching.

 

[cot]

Just one quick comment, sitting a course and having a certificate to coach really doesn't mean a great deal. Anyone can pay there money, attend the course and pass without ever having picked up a ball. I believe to be a good coach you need the fundametals of the sport, not necessarily be at the top of the game, but I certainly would question a coach who only has a 150 average, or has never bowled before. "Reading a lane" is not something you can learn to do from a texbook!
Also I like your comment about bowlers being taught techniques which could cause injuries, however the amount of badly drilled balls i've seen that have caused injuries is ridiculous, I believe there is also a course for this, thus proving having a certificate really doesn't mean much, as it is not governed once attained.
I guess it also depends on what level you want to improve too. If you want to improve from 120ave to 160 ave, then any bowler who knows the fundametals of sparing could get you there! If your wanting to go from 160-180 then a higher averaged bowler could probably make a few comments and help out, if your wanting to improve beyond that then you would probably be looking for a higher more respected coach!

 

[rychenroller]

Also I like your comment about bowlers being taught techniques which could cause injuries, however the amount of badly drilled balls i've seen that have caused injuries is ridiculous, I believe there is also a course for this, thus proving having a certificate really doesn't mean much, as it is not governed once attained.
!

Ball drilling is in a bigger grey area than coaching if thats possible. Anyone can drill a ball, the only time it gets caught out if its bad is through injury or if there happens to be an honour score bowled.

 

[jason_doust]

Ball drilling is in a bigger grey area than coaching if thats possible. Anyone can drill a ball, the only time it gets caught out if its bad is through injury or if there happens to be an honour score bowled.

I second that. The number of people I have helped out of pain which they thought was "normal" is large enough to make me realise that we've lost a lot of players to badly fitting equipment. I must only be seeing the tip of the iceberg. (Not always some driller's fault either - often somebody gets a mate's old ball and "she'll be right...") I even saved a woman from surgery once. Her orthopaedic surgeon was impressed with her "miraculous recovery."

I'm a L2 Coach. Had I known that rising up the coaching ladder basically involves learning all about how to coach and manage state teams, I'd have reconsidered. I spent the first year and a bit of my life as a L2 knocking back offers to coach rep teams that needed a L2 coach. (Look at the politics in your local association and any sane person will understand my motivation.) Also, being a moderately competitive player means that I have to spend time sharpening my own game and running a pro shop also takes time.

And there's the rub. Time. There just isn't enough. Especially if you want to keep some little luxuries like a job, a house and a marriage. If you want to know why people don't do their re-accreditation, there's probably not enough time in their lives. Coaching is time-consuming. If you have lots of time on your hands, you're not running the ever-changing pro shop gauntlet while holding down a real job that pays enough for food and a house, while trying to keep your game competitive at an open level. Trust me, when you try to do all this, you just realise that coaching isn't happening. Almost all of the coaching I do occurs in the pro shop or on the lanes during a tournament when I see somebody struggling. Occasionally, I get a bit done if somebody wins the "Jason's got a spare hour and he's at the bowl" lottery. It's fun, but I haven't got the time to pursue it. In fact, I have to actively avoid it to get everything else done.

 

[rychenroller]

And there's the rub. Time.

Yep, I get some funny looks when I tell people I need an hour minimum to drill their ball (preferably 90 minutes). From getting them on the lanes and working out a PAP, to discussing drilling angles to suit their tilt, speed, RPM etc, to getting them on the lanes and fine tuning...time.

 

[Michael Little]

Yep, I get some funny looks when I tell people I need an hour minimum to drill their ball (preferably 90 minutes). From getting them on the lanes and working out a PAP, to discussing drilling angles to suit their tilt, speed, RPM etc, to getting them on the lanes and fine tuning...time.

Or like what happened to me last night, watched a guy the previous week bowl, style noted all that sort of stuff, ball ordered, measured him up last night, still a conventional grip, all sorted, fit fine, came off the hand fine, go have a practice, here he is bowling with just two fingers in the ball whacking it wondering why it turns so much, talk about smacking my head bowled normally, ball works fine, but he prefers to just use two fingers, and was just bowling normally the week before because his wrist was sore.

 

[Roysa]

Ha ha sorry micheal no offense but that story made me laugh a bit.

 

[androooo]

Been there, done that Mick...

It's just great. I may have offended a few people by asking a couple of times "Do you really bowl like that?"

 

[Michael Little]

Been there, done that Mick...

It's just great. I may have offended a few people by asking a couple of times "Do you really bowl like that?"

Well the follow up is, watched him bowl league, kept his thumb in the ball this time but cupped it like he was bowling no thumb, so 3 different ways of bowling, go figure, doesn't bother me, as long as people have fun, but I hate not having all the information when I do things, I probably would have drilled it differently.

 

[jason_doust]

Been there, done that Mick...

It's just great. I may have offended a few people by asking a couple of times "Do you really bowl like that?"

I just started typing my password as "hahahahahahahaa!" after reading that!

Gold!

But you're right Michael, as long as folks have fun.

 

[Casual Observer]

Nev,

You said "Hey I'm not talking coaching the elite here just league level down (Which is all what Level one coaches are only supposed to coach)" Yes this thread is a joke if you truly believe that people who are not "accredited coaches" should not help their fellow league bowlers where possible or dare I say it, help a social bowler keep the ball on the lane so they enjoy their visit. You answered the original question in this post quite well.

As for why the piece of paper is there, it is to satisfy egos for those who need it. It means you have attended the relevant course, nothing more. It does not mean you know how to coach, it does not mean you have extensive knowledge in the sport. It means you may have some sort of idea what to look for, the same as any experienced bowler usually has but you have a piece of paper to confirm this.

 

[Casual Observer]

Another one is an experienced female argued with a coach of 20 years that he is teaching kids wrong
The arrows are for picking up different pins
While this could be true for an experience bowler
We are taught to instruct beginners to bowl over 2nd arrow
Only one thing to concentrate on
Give them too many options they get confused
Bowling over different arrows confuses the beginner
Get confused they get frustrated
Get frustrated and roll a bad shot
Then chuck the sport in

Yes that was in the sports Psychology section of the Coaching course
But only someone that has done the course would know that

Wow, you mean keep it simple? Sorry, I thought that applied to everything someone tries to do and was just common sense.