Unaccredited Coaches

[nev25]

I would just like to throw out a question or two and see what response I get regarding people coaching that have no coaching accreditations

As a TBA and a USBC Level one coach I find it extremal frustrating when I get approached by a bowling that needs help with some aspect of the game only to find they where not shown or instructed properly in the first place
Or they have listened someone with a higher average than the coach that instructed them
(Is this what is killing the sport??)

As I believe there is no real right way of bowling a ball down the lane there are some common basic fundamentals

(Iv seen some really silly thing being suggested to beginner bowlers some by accredited coaches that where just big-noting them self)

Just because someone has a high bowling average doesn't mean they are a good coach
Or someone with a low averages is not necessary a bad coach

Now I am extremely far from being some sort of an expert of a guru but I have done the courses and the study for a reason.

As I look on the TBA site and see there have been very few coaches that have re-accredited it a concern

What does a coaching accreditation mean??

Should Unaccredited coaches be allowed to coach
If so why go though the reaccreditaion process (which was nothing more that paying something like $70 and filling out a form and sending it in with a new passport photo and submit a logbook proving coaching activity)

And should someone instructing someone that is not an accredited coach be stopped?

 

[burdekinsnow]

Probably get shot down in flames, but I have coached my son since he started getting serious about the game. Personal opinion is that I have done not too bad a job. But I have no accreditation other than a long time in the game but my question would be how would you stop unaccredited coach

 

[Andrew S.]

One of the reasons they dont re-accredit is because they only took the coaching course in the first place to improve their own game and having reached a certain level of proficiency they look elsewhere for advice. As for unaccredited coaches not being allowed to coach - why not? And as Greg says, how are you going to stop them?

I dont know of any centres that employ a full time coach, AMF used to employ an instructor in the distant past, even gave him a blue shirt, but that has long gone. Some centres do use a part time coach which is better than nothing but they usually look for a higher average bowler to do this if an accredited coach is not available.

What most of us do find amusing is an accredited coach who struggles to maintain a reasonable personal average. The fact that averages and/or past achievements are not taken into consideration as part of the accreditation process is a mystery to many of us. Under the present system a 150 bowler can be officially qualified to coach even a State Team.

Hardly logical. Better the coach doesnt bowl at all. Any coach who struggles with his own bowling... enough said.

 

[bomber_comfort]

I just finished my level 1 coaching course two weekends ago. There is so many things that are very handy to know that come from the courses.Let alone what you learn from lev 2 or above courses.

I also think a few things are important about being accredited.
1. You have a blue card.... enough said.
2. You have insurance for if something goes wrong and one of your bowlers hurts themselves.
3. You know the base that should be taught. Of course you can give your own flare on that and changes but the base stuff is the same and thus if they go to a development clinic or state squad what you have taught them is what they will be learning from.

Of course if you just want to coach your son or daughter or whatever hey that's fine do whatever, they hurt themselves don't come trying to sue anybody.

 

[androooo]

I don't coach anymore... However, will offer "advice" if asked

 

[magpi17]

What is a Coach?
A coach is not your mate that you bowl doubles with every week, but your mate might see something you are doing differently and offer advice.
Nev, have you approached centres and offered to assist bowlers with their game or do you just observe others offering what you term as unaccredited coaching, are these people taking money from bowlers for their advice?
Coaching is a lot different to offering advice, a bowler needs to really want/need to play well to want to pay a coach. Coaching is a commitment between people and a lot of bowlers can't give the commitment.
Don't take this as personal as it isn't I can see were you are coming from but from my observations the guy's that are being coached have a better constant game than those who don't.

 

[willey]

Nev, an old Book Titled "PAR BOWLING" started with the words"there are 20 million Bowlers in America and there are 30 million Coaches".

I did my level 1 coaching course 10 years ago but I haven't bowled for 7 years, can I still Coach? I haven't lost that knowledge even though I have not kept up my Paperwork, I believe I can.

Same as Drilling a Ball, I received my ATBC certificate in the 1990's through the School run by Fred Borden, I'm pretty sure I can still handle a Drill, as I started Drilling in 1969 as a 17 year old.

So although you think a Certificate is important, you may not know that the people Coaching have more knowledge than you think they have.

willey

 

[lgt]

I think the single most important issue for tenpin bowling to survive as a sport is the level of committment from the NSO and SSO to Coaches and Officials.

I was invovled with Netball and proceeded down the usual path - coaching my daughter and team (8yrs), being immediately sent information and support by the Association, encouraged to attend coaching sessions run Saturdays after our games, received a manual and information with newsletter / email / online options and coaching clinics at no cost.

The most important thing was that we were encouraged and appreciated, free training sessions and access to be involved with high level coaches while they were training players - then I went down the path of accreditation.

For bowling we have the same parents / bowlers assisting others to improve. What happens from there?

Leanne

 

[jimcross]

Those who can - Do............... Those who can't - Teach............!!

 

[John_Velo]

Hi All,

I was not going to buy into this thread as it is a can of worms. But then thought I would offer my opinion for the 20 cents it is worth.

I do believe that bowlers helping bowlers during a tournament is good sportsmanship. They can sometimes give you a word or two that confirms what you are feeling. I have had this happen on a number of occasions since returning to bowling. You listen to these guys, Adam Goldberg gave me some advice in the first event that we bowled in together that help and guided me in a different direction from the one I was taking. I have had Sam Romeo drop me a word about ball reaction that he was seeing. Jason Doust has seen things and commented that has made a difference between cut and no cut. I have ask Sue Cassell to cast an eye over my game to confirm what I am feeling. Bowlers can help bowlers pin point where it is wrong as it is often something small as you have the fundamentals down packed already.

Do I think that all bowlers can coach, NO. My dad was handy on the lanes as a bowler but very Communist in his coaching methods. Dad’s coaching was with a stick, I had an approach set up in the back yard that was about 5 inches wide and a lane the same width 16foot long, I was made to practice on for hours s kid. It made me walk straight, but I still could not hit the side of barn to save myself. In the end I gave up bowling all together as it was not fun anymore.

There is a very big difference between someone coming up and saying can you help me with something and coaching. Do I think that we need accredited coaches and coaching clinic. YES, this is what makes bowling a sport. Without structured coaching paths accredited by the governing bodies it is just a game.

Bowlers should help other bowlers to increase the fun level for all, tournament bowlers should help juniors and new starters get going, but point them to an accredited coach.

Should a coach also be good at what they coach. NO, I don’t believe that is the case. As Jim has said above in a very simple fashion, I feel the same. A person can have a love for something and have a keen eye and transfer knowledge well but not actually be able to complete the physical task themselves. Not every Track and Field coach can run 100mm(nice typo there) in under 10 seconds or shot-put 30m’s. It does not mean they should not coach.

Ok time to breath out, thanks for reading.

 

[amagill]

I can run 100mm in less than 10 seconds John, should I be in the olympics or what!!

 

[jimcross]

I can run 100mm in less than 10 seconds John, should I be in the olympics or what!!

Rubbish.....You're bending the truth - There, that's nice and polite, isn't it ?.....Nobody can run 100mm !!!

 

[amagill]

Rubbish.....You're bending the truth - There, that's nice and polite, isn't it ?.....Nobody can run 100mm !!!

You got me there Jim!

 

[Geoff300]

Those who can - Do............... Those who can't - Teach............!!

That is an old saying Jim
There are plenty of examples in various sports who can both "Do" & "Teach"

 

[nev25]

Thanks all for the comments
My Points

One of the reasons they don't re-accredit is because they only took the coaching course in the first place to improve their own game and having reached a certain level of proficiency they look elsewhere for advice.
What most of us do find amusing is an accredited coach who struggles to maintain a reasonable personal average. The fact that averages and/or past achievements are not taken into consideration as part of the accreditation process is a mystery to many of us. Under the present system a 150 bowler can be officially qualified to coach even a State Team.

Yes but coaches are taught to coach or teach Bowling
not to bowl there is a difference

but my question would be how would you stop unaccredited coach

Tell them they cannot Coach without an accreditation
I'm not really talking about someone advising in league there will always be Armchair experts in all sports and thats a problem in itself
Guess I'm talking about unaccredited bowlers running coaching sessions

I also think a few things are important about being accredited.
2. You have insurance for if something goes wrong and one of your bowlers hurts themselves.

Of course if you just want to coach your son or daughter or whatever hey that's fine do whatever, they hurt themselves don't come trying to sue anybody.

Good point

I don't coach anymore... However, will offer "advice" if asked

And if they hurt themselves on your advice what happens???

Nev, have you approached centres and offered to assist bowlers with their game or do you just observe others offering what you term as unaccredited coaching, are these people taking money from bowlers for their advice?
.

This post is not necessary about me its more about the system
I run coaching Clinics/Sessions every Tuesday night and will coach anyone outside of those time if they ask for it
No I don't get paid for it but its a thought
There will alway be unaccredited coaches who will come along and try to take over and when thing get to hard walk away leaving those to rebuild and pick up the pieces

I think the single most important issue for tenpin bowling to survive as a sport is the level of commitment from the NSO and SSO to Coaches and Officials.

Couldn't agree more and I think we are heading that sort of direction

For bowling we have the same parents / bowlers assisting others to improve.

And if the parents /Bowlers have got it wrong what happens then??

There is a very big difference between someone coming up and saying can you help me with something and coaching. Do I think that we need accredited coaches and coaching clinic. YES, this is what makes bowling a sport. Without structured coaching paths accredited by the governing bodies it is just a game.

Well said

Should a coach also be good at what they coach. NO, I don’t believe that is the case. As Jim has said above in a very simple fashion, I feel the same. A person can have a love for something and have a keen eye and transfer knowledge well but not actually be able to complete the physical task themselves. Not every Track and Field coach can run 100mm(nice typo there) in under 10 seconds or shot-put 30m’s. It does not mean they should not coach.

My thoughts exactly
After all behind ever Olympic athlete these isn't always an coach that was previously Olympic athlete
Has Lleyton Hewitt's coach won an Australian Open??

I personally think for this sport to survive and move forward there need to be some strick guildline put in place regading coaching

Ive seen many bowlers drop out of the sport due to being injured by instructions on incorrect technique
As well as frustration of being coached by someone not knowing how to coach in the first place

 

[androooo]

And if they hurt themselves on your advice what happens???

Considering most of the advice I give these days would be about lane play, equipment choices, equipment setup... I don't really care.

People come to me because, most of the time, I know what I'm talking about, or want me opinion

If they want someone with insurance, go to someone who is accredited... Doesn't bother me in the slightest

 

[JWhitty]

I realise I have a tendency to harp on about 'other sports', but that's probably because 'other sports' are extremely successful and we can learn from them...

Football (the round one) offers way more levels of coaching, for way more money. Generally speaking only those with a real interest in it go through the programs, or experienced players looking to back down and stay involved. I don't know how many people reading this might have a son/daughter, or niece/nephew, playing Rooball (or whatever your local variant is) but let me ask you how many of those Rooball coaches do you think are accredited in even the grassroots certificate (barely what we'd consider Level 0)? My guess is probably none, maybe some, definitely not many - in fact I'd bet my eggs that more Rooball coaches do the referee fundamentals for the rules, not coaching for the skills.

In any case, the point I'm working towards is damn straight your beginner bowler should be able to work with a friend helping them out. If they actually want to be good, then they need to assess if their friend is working well or if it's time to seek 'professional' help.

I spent a huge portion of my summer two years back training/coaching a friend who wanted to break into Football, she was mid 20's and enthusiastic, with some past experience in juniors. We spent hours several days a week working on her skills. Yes, several hours, several days a week - she was a keen bean. I helped her from "I'm interested in this game" all the way to making a Premier League Reserve grade team, then when she decided she was serious I handed off to the Premier League coach and then just practiced with her.

Yes, there are people who shouldn't even attempt it. For some outrageous reason we even issued some top level accreditations to some people who CLEARLY shouldn't be coaches (technical knowledge does not a good teacher make). At the end of the day, the bowler needs to find someone that works for them, qualified or not.

 

[RobbieB]

After all behind ever Olympic athlete these isn't always an coach that was previously Olympic athlete
Has Lleyton Hewitt's coach won an Australian Open??

lol. That's funny. You do know who Hewitts coach is right?
And I'll bet that a large percentage if not a majority of Olympic coaches were successful in their sport before turning to coaching.

 

[GeorgeF]

As an un-accredited coach myself I have run numerous seminars and classes around Australia... I like to think my expertise comes at the very high end technical side of the sport, an area for which only the elite who have been there could comment on. I admit my ability to teach the fundamentals is limited however what I can contribute to the sport is not necessarily written in a book, nor is an accredited coaching method. My expertise is in the physics of bowling, core dynamics and creating ball shape.

I don't think what I am doing is wrong, I really wish 10 years ago I had my current knowledge and someone could have shared it with me to accelerate my bowling career. I will continue to share my knowledge and help other bowlers with or without TBA's endorsement. I am not against TBA in anyway, quite the opposite however I don't want to teach the fundamentals, I like the very technical side of the sport. I don't have the time to get the TBA endorsement or accreditation but I still want to help fellow bowlers. I will continue to do what I do, i hope bowlers continue to appreciate and endorse my expertise.... Even though I am not accredited

 

[Jasonguru]

well said.

at the end of day, if you have the skills and knowledge and are willing to impart that to other bowlers. fantastic.

the best bowlers, athletes, whatever, do make the best coaches in most cases, exceptions perhaps being bowling and golf or any muscle memory dependant sport. btw leyton hewitt's coach is tony roache, a former major winner i believe and a legend of the sport so he must know a thing or 2!

it simply does not matter if you are accredited or whatever, it is all about the ability to teach on multi levels and most importantly relate to who it is you are coaching or being coached by.