TBA Income & Accountability - Suggestion

Just on that idea...What stops Joe blobs taking a League to a centre and organising his own sponsors and awards (MOSTLY MONEY) let’s face it that’s the type of leagues 95% of bowlers chase, and saying here is 40 odd bowlers what game rate will you give me and NO we don’t want to have to pay that money for each game bowled to TBA...

Also who is going to police it all...? It becomes a trust between the League Sectary/President the centre and the TBA...It becomes a very big trust issue…I have been involved before in Leagues that have been ripped off so what’s saying this won’t happen…A lot of paperwork to unfold I think…

I know if I was a centre owner and someone was brining me 160 games a night + café and Proshop sales for 42 weeks of the year I would bend over backwards and give them what they wanted...If that meant no game fees from the Governing body then that’s what they get…I am sure there are plenty of centre owners thinking the same way…IT’s a Business…

The idea might be good but need a lot of fool proof plans…
 
Just on that idea...What stops Joe blobs taking a League to a centre and organising his own sponsors and awards (MOSTLY MONEY) let’s face it that’s the type of leagues 95% of bowlers chase, and saying here is 40 odd bowlers what game rate will you give me and NO we don’t want to have to pay that money for each game bowled to TBA...

Also who is going to police it all...? It becomes a trust between the League Sectary/President the centre and the TBA...It becomes a very big trust issue…I have been involved before in Leagues that have been ripped off so what’s saying this won’t happen…A lot of paperwork to unfold I think…

I know if I was a centre owner and someone was brining me 160 games a night + café and Proshop sales for 42 weeks of the year I would bend over backwards and give them what they wanted...If that meant no game fees from the Governing body then that’s what they get…I am sure there are plenty of centre owners thinking the same way…IT’s a Business…

The idea might be good but need a lot of fool proof plans…

Vaild points Jase, but just to rebut a couple of them
1. It is $1.00 per series by the bowler, not per game
2. It has nothing to do with the centre in any way, shape or form, this is run by league secretaries/treasurers, association secretaries and the TBA

Accountability, accountability, accountability is what we are after. I can think of a system where the paper trail is a piece of cake, a couple of EFT payments and the funds are paid - VERY easy to do. Will add probably 10 minutes work for those responsible per week.

Take care mate........Max
 
Max

The idea has merits. Most of the problems I came up with after reading your first post have been addressed so I won't bring them back up. My only real concern with this idea is the simple fact that people are lazy when it comes to extra work, even if it is only 10mins. The collecting of your "Series tax" in your plan is done by secretaries/treasurers etc... what about the multitude of leagues run by centres? It's hard enough getting staff to do allocated duties as it is! Not to mention in the leagues with commitee staff they already have alot on thier plate, some might not enjoy the extra task.
I'm not saying it's a bad idea and with time it might work, but in the short term you'll have no end of problems that will cause alot of people to ask "why bother" and not give it a chance. Don't forget, the bowlers who care about the future of the sport and TBA are in the minority.

My alternative was something simple. Every league bowler in the country pays a $10 - $15 membership at the start of the year. No exceptions. If you want to be a league bowler then you pay and become a registered league bowler with the TBA. Once set up the TBA can send out renewal forms from a central database and eventually everyone can pay them direct. Suddenly the TBA can have accurate figures on the participants in the country, instead of declining numbers of "registered" bowlers each year we could see the sport grow, the sport has higher income each year (and total would be alot more predictable) and the sport gains credibility in the "outside" world through numbers.
Once paid, all money goes to the TBA who then allocate a cut (say 45% of each states fees) to the state bodies who in turn pass on funding to local associations.

If you want to play competative sport, in almost every sport I can think of, you have to pay a registration fee. Why should bowling be any different? "What do I get for my money?" You get to play the game, what more do you want!! Otherwise lets just scrap the whole lot, forget awards and tournaments and just have Friday night beer and pot games at the local centre.
 
Just out of interest.

How are you going to force every league to participate in this $1.00 a series scheme when at the moment you would be lucky to have 25% of leagues paying TBA fees.

If i bowl 3 leagues a week does it cost me $130 a year to bowl league.
 
Just out of interest.

How are you going to force every league to participate in this $1.00 a series scheme when at the moment you would be lucky to have 25% of leagues paying TBA fees.

If i bowl 3 leagues a week does it cost me $130 a year to bowl league.

Yes the proposed scheme would mean the TBA gets $130 a year from you personally. Now a person bowling in my league only would simply pay $45.

Their is built in inequality in the schemes proposal but if it could be implemented, then the TBA would not need to worry about funding, however, they would have to ensure adequate funding is made available to local associations out of the funds collected.
 
The simple answer is to collect a levy from Open Play as well as Membership. Tenpin was until very recently in the top 10 participation Sports in Australia, yet our membership data base is totally unreflective of the number of people taking part.

So What if the General Public dont receive any benefits? They are playing on registered Lanes that have been measured and certified by a qualified body.
Jo Blow isnt going to stay home simply because his local Centre remits a fraction of his cost to a National body.

The problem is of course that this would require the co-operation of both AMF and the Independants but it could be done and it would require less than a few cents per game to give the governing body a respectable income.

The ABS havent released Sport participation figures for about 5 years now but the last set showed that nearly 50% of Tenpin Participation was in organised competition.

You cant open a retail operation in a Westfield shopping centre without paying a percentage of turnover to Westfield. It could easily work the same way for Bowling. If you dont want to join the system you dont get registered.
 
If people arent willing to spend 1 dollar a week to see our game (not using the term sport as even people in this forum dont believe it qualifies as one) improve, not only for ourselves, but for those in the future, why bowl at all?

There are so many sceptics in our community, why cant we believe that TBA is trying to turn things around, and they need funding to do so. Shouldnt TBA be able to trust its members to pay a small amount, and not have to worry people who are too tight to pay the extra money. What happened to all the honest people out there?

If everyone keeps acting like this, then kids and new members of TBA will have the same attitude, and it will just continue on forever.
 
Jo Blow isnt going to stay home simply because his local Centre remits a fraction of his cost to a National body
He might if he's a social only bowler and the cost increases. Everyone has a cash limit on how much they're prepared to spend. I know of people who take their beer bottles home from the alley as they get 5c back each time. Try increasing their rates :(
 
So many valid points in this post but unfortunately as good as all the ideas sound very few will ever be embraced. I personally don't have any issue paying the extra cash for registration but I am most definatley the minority. The $1 per league scheme on the surface seems an easy fix but as someone has already stated if they bowl 3 leagues per week they then pay $130 annually which would mean that they would then be better off just paying the $50 upfront outlay at the beginning of the year.

Also has everyone forgotten about the State/National Reps and Tournament bowlers to make this system fair for the average league bowler would they have to pay an additional registration fee (a smaller fee of course) to bring their contribution to the TBA higher then those average league bowlers?

At the end of the day I think the road the TBA chose to head down may end out being the correct one and across the board the fairest. Yes it sucks that we have to pay such an increased amount upfront but unfortunately this may be the easiest way.

Cheers Ash
 
Just out of interest.

How are you going to force every league to participate in this $1.00 a series scheme when at the moment you would be lucky to have 25% of leagues paying TBA fees.

If i bowl 3 leagues a week does it cost me $130 a year to bowl league.

Easily. If you league is not sanctioned, then no formal recognition, such as 300 games or any other achievement.Simple. Imagine if your league wasnt sanctioned and you shot 300, or an 800 series! How would you feel? Especially if it was your 1st 300 or other major achievement. It'd leave a pretty sick taste in the mouth me thinks.

The more you bowl, the more you contribute. User pays is always the fairest way for anything in life. The more you bowl, the bigger the contribution. What's $3 a week to you, seriously.

At the end of the day, all i am seeing aimed at these suggestions is more negativity, yet people freely complain about the current structures and newly proposed fee structure.

If you want to complain, then level the scope and provide something constructive that resolves a situation. Simple as that!

Pure and simple, this proposal has more merit than anything else offered up anywhere on these pages and i firmly believe this should be explored much more thoroughly by the TBA.
 
At the end of the day, all i am seeing aimed at these suggestions is more negativity, yet people freely complain about the current structures and newly proposed fee structure.

Never said I had a problem with the current fee structure. Im more than happy to pay the new fees.

Why has league bowling numbers dropped off over the last 5-10 years.
Mainly the cost factor. And you want to charge people another $45 a year per league. Gee I thought it was only the centres trying to kill off league bowling to allow more lanes for social bowling.

What i object to is having to pay $135.00 a year if I bowled 3 leagues a week and getting nothing in return. Id rather pay the $27.50 for nothing in return.

Hows that for negativity.

:confused::confused::confused::confused:
 
Never said I had a problem with the current fee structure. Im more than happy to pay the new fees.

Why has league bowling numbers dropped off over the last 5-10 years.
Mainly the cost factor. And you want to charge people another $45 a year per league. Gee I thought it was only the centres trying to kill off league bowling to allow more lanes for social bowling.

What i object to is having to pay $135.00 a year if I bowled 3 leagues a week and getting nothing in return. Id rather pay the $27.50 for nothing in return.

Hows that for negativity.

:confused::confused::confused::confused:

Robert

YOU are exactly the type of person who will benefit. With respect, IF you read the post again properly, right from the start - you will see where.

You have been a great representative of SA for many years at national level, and no doubt, a lot of it at your own expense. Rachuig roll-offs, Rachuig practice, your own individual cost of "Nationals" to represent your state.

A lot of this new income is going to 3 areas as has been mentioned before
a) promoting the game
b) training for representative bowlers
c) travel and accommodation for representative bowlers

As Jason mentioned earlier, the distribution is the same as the government system. State bodies put in a request to TBA for funding for their respective Rachuig trial and practice costs commensurate with the number of bowlers involved.

Imagine this very much understated scenario people........30,000 people pay $1.00 per series, a lot bowling twice or more per week, but let's average it out at 1.5. Therefore, the TBA has received $45,000.00 per week over 40 weeks, totally $1.8m. Overheads may increase slightly so far as wages and office etc for administering this, let's say $80,000.00 in related expenses. Considering in 2007 the TBA received only $347049.00, it means they are $1,372931.00 ahead in member registrations. A good figure to put aside for promotion of the game would be say $500,000.00, leaving a MASSIVE $872931.00 for you guessed it - representative training, travel & accommodation.

Just imagine if TBA paid the lineage etc for Rachuig practice, roll-offs and competition and subsidised every team member $1000.00 towards their accommodation and travel etc. Allowing for 200 bowlers and officials, we still have close to $600,000.00 left for training of all age groups at the elite level & for International representation.

On another note.......I have spoken to several bowlers on the $1.00 matter, and everyone has said that amount wouldn't bother them in the least, while they might jokingly b*tch about it for a week or two, soon be all forgotten. Need to think about this too...the bowlers who are not members of forums like this one would have absolutely no idea what the structure is.....and they wouldn't care. If they were simply told 'series rates' were going up a dollar for association admin fees, but they don't have to pay $20.00 odd in one hit at any stage for the year.......very few people, if anyone would complain. BUT people will not be happy paying as much as $55.00 in one hit, and recruiting new league bowlers who have to part with that kind of money the first or second week into the sport - will be even harder. However, most newbies would not care or even be interested about $1.00 of their weekly series cost going to the TBA, in fact as with all other sports, they would expect the association to have a fee.......

This really is a 'no brainer' folks, if we don't as a group back our governing body and yet still make it very accountable - we will continue to have a game with declining numbers, a National team competition without some of the best bowlers, consequently maybe not the first choice options representing our country !!!
 
Max
The main support for this needs to come from the Centres:
Suggest a handling fee + gst - every time money is collected, insured, or transfered it costs. If the centre is compensated then the extra time/wage/accounting, every league, every week is covered, and the process accountable.
Although the League Secretary/Treasurer can collect there is always an opportunity for error/issues.

Current TBA proposal
Juniors: When we pay registration to a sport we are usually aware of the game, receive organised information, rules, training schedule, some coaching etc.
Junior leagues are initially for fun and until the bowlers are introduced to coaching/information they do not classify bowling as 'sport' and shouldn't have to pay a registration. Asking a young child/parent for $22.50 up front to bowl will deter further involvement.

I think the same will be for Senior Bowlers: New bowlers in the senior leagues are common and gaining in numbers, pensioners are not geared for $22.50 up front. A user pay system as you bowl, is fairer.

But I would think the TBA did their homework and the system they have chosen will be implemented. I don't think they will have the registrations they desire, the structure within each state is inadequate and although I believe in registration, the process suggested will not encourage participation.

Leanne
 
He might if he's a social only bowler and the cost increases. Everyone has a cash limit on how much they're prepared to spend. I know of people who take their beer bottles home from the alley as they get 5c back each time. Try increasing their rates :(

im sorry but i cant agree with that...AMF have increased their rates a few times over the last couple years yet ppl still go in to bowl socially...AMF also raise their league game rates 10c every year yet very few complain and just assume that due to inflation (lets see if they raise it next year) they expect the cost to go up...If ppl dont like the cost of AMF centres they will go to an independant (if one is nearby)...raising the cost of 2 games pp from $19.50-$19.60 ppl are not going to question not care...in fact most ppl would be happy to just hand over a $20 note and not worry about the change...fancy that...a 50c price increase on social game rates with 25c of that goin straight to the TBA...

I know this is farfetched and im only dreaming because Macquarie wouldnt care but i think that it is a viable option that needs to be carefully looked at
 
Robert

A good figure to put aside for promotion of the game would be say $500,000.00, leaving a MASSIVE $872931.00 for you guessed it - representative training, travel & accommodation.

Just imagine if TBA paid the lineage etc for Rachuig practice, roll-offs and competition and subsidised every team member $1000.00 towards their accommodation and travel etc. Allowing for 200 bowlers and officials, we still have close to $600,000.00 left for training of all age groups at the elite level & for International representation.

Does this also equate to Juniors Seniors and Youth or are you only talk about adults
 
Here's the big question that I want to ask.

As I along with others on this forum believe the $1 per bowler per week is a very good way of funding the administration of our sport then this is what I want to know.

If the existing funding strategy was developed due to consultation that took around two months or so then how come none of them come up with this idea rather than the one that they went with.

Blind Freddy could have seen the existing proposal was not going to work and would not provide enough funds to porperly administer our sport so why go with it.

Certainly a continual flow of income rather than a one off influx makes much more economic and business practice sense.
 
Max,

If it works as easy as you make it sound. I'm all for it.

Even your average league bowler isnt stupid and can do maths.
They bowl 2 leagues a work at $1.00 a week for 45 weeks. Thats $90.00.
I bet they are going to want to pay the $27.50 currently on offer if they had to or not be a member at all.
They dont bowl State Championship, Tournaments, Nationals.
They just want to turn bowl there 3 games a night & have a couple beers.

Like I said though, if it works as easy as you make it sound. I'm all for it.
But over the years i've found that in reality nothing is as easy as it sounds.

Good luck, hope you can make it happen.
 
Max,

I agree with the concept of what you wanting to do to help the few, but to the many who really don't don't care and got no idea, what benefit is it to them.

Controlling it will be a problem, and then letting a bunch of people decide what to do with it! with the bowlers interest at heart..... Well I'm not even going to go there!!! :)

cheers

Tony
 
Max,

I agree with the concept of what you wanting to do to help the few, but to the many who really don't don't care and got no idea, what benefit is it to them.

Controlling it will be a problem, and then letting a bunch of people decide what to do with it! with the bowlers interest at heart..... Well I'm not even going to go there!!! :)

cheers

Tony

Here Here Tony couldn't agree more.
 
This is an interesting thread, it has brought back memories of a question i was asked by a bowler in our league not too long ago, just exactly what do we get for our registration fees, and i could not tell him. And as to the different tiers of registrations, well i did not even know they existed simply because no one has bothered to tell your average bowler. There is never any news sheets or letters pertaining to the happenings within the TBA for ave bowlers and as quoted in an earlier thread, not very many people are aware of this site.
 
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