Super Six Oiling Patterns - Three in a Row

[Shadows Fall]

I think if you have a look at calibre of the lefties who made the cut - Manning, Frilingos, Macarthur and Davy - these guys are no mugs they are among the best in the country.

What next - all of us rev challenged bowlers will be complaining that it's not fair that the likes of Walsh, Belmonte, Little, Frawley etc have too much power/hand/revs/area and that something should be done to make it fairer for us weaker bowlers.

Unfortunately Australia has a history of producing top quality lefties including Honeychurch, Allsopp, Hart, Lovell etc

If I can borrow a line from Wayne Bennett "Don't get bitter, get better!!"

Cheers

Steve

PS I totally agree with Robbie that Left Handers are the spawn of the devil and should be drowned at birth

 

[strop]

It amazes me these days people griping about lane conditions when the level of equipment out these days you can just about have a ball that will battle any condition.

I've listen to the right handers for the last 35 years ***** how easy it is for the left handers. We don't control the level of bowlers on each side, the conditon should be the same no matter what, otherwise changes hand and be done with it.

I've watch bowling change so much over the years from the basic to the big cranker's and now everyone wants to bowl with 2 hands. Lets go with the big hook I say.......rip the covers off the ball I say...........

CT mentioned the fact that 5 left handers made the top 10, yeah so, some of them have been around for awhile and are capable bowlers and have paid the dues, and really don't need to listen to people who think they might not deserve to be out there.

I don't think you will ever find a happy medium without some not being happy about the condition.

You don't here too many right handers *****-en when another right hander wins a tournament.........

cheers

Strop

 

[CT]

Strop, there was no mention anywhere of anyone not deserving to be there.

The 5 lefties who made it all deserved it, as did the 5 righties. My gripe is the the lefties represent 15% of the field, yet filled 50% of the top ten and 80% of the top 5, hardly a fair reflection.

As for the righties stroking it, just try it some time and see how you go, there is a reason why there aren't many that succeed.

I can sit here and b**ch about the pattern as much as a like, if the powers that be don't listen then what's the point???

They will continue to leave 85% of the field unsatisfied that they had a fair chance!

All I want to see is a 'fair' pattern, which at present we are not getting.

 

[Hippy??]

Well said george..of course all the left handers are much better bowlers than all these right handers....they must all practise a lot more than all those no talent right handers....or is it as one winning lefty said to me once (might have been in confidence I think...not to sure about that) "THEY KEEP GIVING ME THE GUTTER...WHAT SHOULD I DO?????". Yep ..they must have a lot more talent....

As for how to beat a lefty..just play them in a step ladder...none of them have any idea what to do under a bit of pressure....Or just get them to start thinking...it's the same as getting them to throw it further inside than about 8 board...they don't know how to.

In all seriousness we have 900,000 posts here every week trying to get more people to bowl in open tourny's and then you see the results and wonder why people are not flocking to them. If I was an up and coming bowler and not left handed and able to throw no rev's down the gutter the last place I would be going would be to a super six event.

 

[jwalsh]

I think this is getting off the topic a little...
What Jez has posted is a good post. Bowling is in a bad way in AUS right now, and we need bowlers to get back out there and bowl or we are all going to be looking for something else to do.
I've bowled the last 3 events on this pattern and i can say i've had no look on it 3 times
if i play out the ball rolls at my feet as there is not a lot of volume in the heads. So i have no option but to go in on this pattern. When i go in i get a major out of bounds and very little hold on this pattern so i have to just try and hold on for 5 or 6 games until i get a little hold and then try to get a lot fast and hope i'm not too many hundred behind, but hey thats bowling.
The problem is on this pattern the other side of the lane plays very nice; free hook off the edge and good hold.
Is this going to stop me playing?? No
Is this going to stop other bowlers playing? By the looks of it YES
SO WHY ARE WE PLAYING THE SAME PATTERN EVERY WEEK

all the lefties can get on here and say what they like about about right-handers and even me, but i do not really care what people say. As its time to look at the big picture in AUS as what we are doing is not working, bowlers are not bowling and things have to change!!!!

 

[wchester]

Instead of beating around the bush, I'll ask the question that's on everyone's mind.

Who is the person responsible for setting the patterns and do they have any reason to favour the left and in particular George Frilingos?

 

[BELMO]

OK....

I dont think "the laneman" is trying to purposely give anyone an advantage. Especially for this many events in a row.
An oil pattern is extremely hard to lay down and be 'fair'. Thats why though there are experts in the field.
I think George did mention that patterns should come from Kegel? Thats a possibility.

When ever you lay down a high scoring symmetrical pattern down, 2 things will happen for sure. The lefties have the advantage (because of less traffic) and the angle of entry changes much more often for the right handers (again because of traffic) causing carry issues.
Angle of entry I think is the main issue. On a high scoring pattern, the right handers can always move and find something to hit the pocket, but unless you throw the ball like me, the angle into the pocket gets worse the further you have to move in (im talking passed 4th arrow). Now you make the lefties do the same thing and its a new ball game.

Georgie, dont assume that bowlers that play are not practicing enough and thats the reason your winning all the time.
Im a realist and 98/100 times you win I will say great bowling (the other 2 is when your laughing at us righties ). But to assume that your winning simply because other people are just not as accurate as you and dont put in as much time on the lanes as you is a little stupid.
Anyone who wins has the 'advantage' over the field, thats why they won. The guys who understand that I feel gets more respect from more players when they win....
We have had this chat before and its "all about angles". The closer to the gutter that most bowlers can get to the better they strike. Just like you.

So ok, how is this fixed?
Its all about knowledge of oil patterns and lane surfaces. Who ever is the top dog in that department must do some research before just 'copying and pasting' a lane pattern.

The greatest thing about bowling is that every bowling centre you go to should be different, giving the bowlers (on both sides of the lane) challenges to improve and to create more interesting events.
Same $hit different bowling centre seems to be doing more harm than good in OZ right now.

I often look at running events like a business. Who are the majority of customers? If i keep catering to my minority, whats going to happen to the bulk of my income?? Or in this case entries!!
I am in no way saying that the left should be 'shut out' (even if I do think it sometimes) all I am saying is lets mix it up a bit, make both sides of the lane play different parts of the lane so every event is some what unique...there are just no more stories coming out of the events like their used to be!!!

Can I get an AMEN

Jason Belmonte

ps-
Europe/Asia/PBA/Australia- we all have 1 thing in common, "Righties hate the lefties and lefties hate the righties" (dont take that too literally) it has been that way since one of the Egyptian Pharaohs threw the first rock at some stones and it will be that way after we are all long and gone.
All we have to try and do is try and find a way to get along as often as possible....

 

[scott]

OK....

I dont think "the laneman" is trying to purposely give anyone an advantage. Especially for this many events in a row.
An oil pattern is extremely hard to lay down and be 'fair'. Thats why though there are experts in the field.
I think George did mention that patterns should come from Kegel? Thats a possibility.

When ever you lay down a high scoring symmetrical pattern down, 2 things will happen for sure. The lefties have the advantage (because of less traffic) and the angle of entry changes much more often for the right handers (again because of traffic) causing carry issues.
Angle of entry I think is the main issue. On a high scoring pattern, the right handers can always move and find something to hit the pocket, but unless you throw the ball like me, the angle into the pocket gets worse the further you have to move in (im talking passed 4th arrow). Now you make the lefties do the same thing and its a new ball game.

Georgie, dont assume that bowlers that play are not practicing enough and thats the reason your winning all the time.
Im a realist and 98/100 times you win I will say great bowling (the other 2 is when your laughing at us righties ). But to assume that your winning simply because other people are just not as accurate as you and dont put in as much time on the lanes as you is a little stupid.
Anyone who wins has the 'advantage' over the field, thats why they won. The guys who understand that I feel gets more respect from more players when they win....
We have had this chat before and its "all about angles". The closer to the gutter that most bowlers can get to the better they strike. Just like you.

So ok, how is this fixed?
Its all about knowledge of oil patterns and lane surfaces. Who ever is the top dog in that department must do some research before just 'copying and pasting' a lane pattern.

The greatest thing about bowling is that every bowling centre you go to should be different, giving the bowlers (on both sides of the lane) challenges to improve and to create more interesting events.
Same $hit different bowling centre seems to be doing more harm than good in OZ right now.

I often look at running events like a business. Who are the majority of customers? If i keep catering to my minority, whats going to happen to the bulk of my income?? Or in this case entries!!
I am in no way saying that the left should be 'shut out' (even if I do think it sometimes) all I am saying is lets mix it up a bit, make both sides of the lane play different parts of the lane so every event is some what unique...there are just no more stories coming out of the events like their used to be!!!

Can I get an AMEN

Jason Belmonte

ps-
Europe/Asia/PBA/Australia- we all have 1 thing in common, "Righties hate the lefties and lefties hate the righties" (dont take that too literally) it has been that way since one of the Egyptian Pharaohs threw the first rock at some stones and it will be that way after we are all long and gone.
All we have to try and do is try and find a way to get along as often as possible....

Belmo I will say it AMEN I honestly think nobody could have said it better I am the average joe bowler that bowls tournys cause i love the sport I mean I just bowled the SA cup and made my first cut in an adult tournment and I am 27 but in saying that i will still go back and bowl year after year cause its a great time

I really dont care if i make a cut or not if I do its just a bonus and the oiling pattern doesnt phase me at all yes I would like to average better but I aveage what I average and I need to be happy with that and 99% of the time I am happy

the only constructive criscsium I have from the weekend would be maybe instead of complaining about oiling patterns and centres we could look at the prize fund a bit better but all in all I will bowl in most tournys and not cut but i will be back year after year

 

[Andrew Frawley]

There have been a few disscussions and topics regarding Australias lack of success of the past few years compared with years gone by and i would like to add something to this debate.

Nearly every major tournament has been played over dual lane conditions post World Championships Malaysia 2003.Short oil ( between 33-35ft) and long oil ( between 42-45ft) . Only AMF World Cup is bowled on a type of house pattern.

I believe bowling on these dual conditions is a completely different discipline to bowling on 38-39 feet patterns.

I compare it to training to run the 100 metres sprint and then turning up at a championships and being asked to run the 1500m.
I am sure the guys trained to run 1500m would definately beat the guy who trained to run 100m over 1500m.

If these ranking tournaments go towards future selection of Australian National Teams surely it makes sense to give the bowlers a look and feel of bowling on these patterns.

There are alot of quality bowlers in Australia and i feel for guys who go to represent and do not have their equipment set up or their games matched up to bowl at these events purely and simply because they do not get to compete and practice on the patterns.

George makes an excellent point that without AMF's support there would be no tournaments for adults to bowl in on a countrywide scale.

Just maybe they could look at some of the success and numbers that Sports series tournaments get and give it a try.Its then up to the bowlers to embrace the challenge and support the tournaments in numbers.

Paul Delany

P.S Sorry to post under Andrews name,need to get a log in of my own

 

[wchester]

So just who is this un-named person who is directing the laneman to put out the same pattern tournament after tournament?

 

[GeorgeF]

I'm all for mixing it up, with Macquarie Leisure being one of Kegel's biggest customers, a little technical support and advice would no doubt be only to forthcoming.

Wayne, there is no conspiracy theory, I've been winning tournaments for the last 10yrs around Australia, the last few years have been no different to the rest bar me practicing more. You need to get a life outside of bowling.

Belmo, I do agree with most of what your saying (just can't agree with you 100% as your right handed). There are several issues affecting tournament bowling at the moment

* Patterns - need to be changed on a regular basis, make them PBA type or Kegel challenge, what ever it is change it up, I'm all for it

* Formats - need to be shorter, whilst this is a distinct disadvantage for me its in the best interest of the game to give people a shot at winning. Re-entry formats need to be pursued again to build up our tournament scene like Europe.

* Dates - need to be planned when nothing else is on in that capital city. Running a tournament on Australia day, Easter, etc is crazy. Everything is expensive, flights, accom, etc. Run the SA Cup or the AO a week later and you'll see flights plummet in cost. Tournament organisers need to plan a bit better

* Entry fees - Need to be under $250, re-entry type format will still offer the good prizemoney whilst making the tournament for more players. Make the AO or SPC $150 to register including your first qualifying attempt and you'll have a few new faces giving it a crack. Everywhere else in the world have this formant, why are we so different?

* Ranked tournaments - need to be kept to a maximum of 6 for the year, put some hefty prizemoney clauses to all the majors to be majors. I don't care where they are or when they are, make first $6K plus and prizefund over $30K. This will keep the 'ranked tournaments' down to a respectable number. As it stands now, if you don't live in Queensland you need to spend a decent amount of money chasing tournaments. Create a tier system, create a structured calendar and maybe we will get it right one day soon.

Like it or not we still need AMF to assist bowling to get back on its feet. AMF have poured thousands into tournament bowling in this country, I for one am thankful we still have tournaments to bowl. I think sending Brett Best some constructive feedback and suggestions will go alot further than just posting on here.

That's all for now

 

[wchester]

Wayne, there is no conspiracy theory, I've been winning tournaments for the last 10yrs around Australia, the last few years have been no different to the rest bar me practicing more. You need to get a life outside of bowling.

Thanks for the advice George...I'll keep it in mind.

Yes, you are the most winnig bowlr in this country and the best lefty since cara retired. I have no quarrel with that statement. But you didn't answer my question. Who is making the decision on the pattern to be laid?

 

[strop]

It's very interesting reading for us old guys who bowl just to keep the numbers there. There was a day once when tournaments where up to a point bowled on house tournament patterns, well here anyway, I should know I use to lay them.

While it would be fantastic to bowl on world conditions and a variety of them, I'm just not sure how it's going to affect the real supporters of these events and you know who I'm talking about, I don't think it's you young guns with the hot hands (except frawley of course he's nearly a senior? I think).

I'm sure most of the middle range bowlers won't care what condition is down, although there will be some who might not have seen so much oil out there compared to there league night!.......but who know's

As a long time ago tournament director from the old ATBA day's and SACUP days with Rod to being a brunswick tech from way back before some of you were at kindergarten, to being a bowler who sometimes made a difference out there.........YOU WILL NEVER PLEASE EVERYONE.

Just remember to you elitist's out there, while just a small hand full you are, with out the rest of the field you are nothing!

Keep it simple!

P.S. I do agree on having different patterns for different tournaments. And remember one thing it's not our fault you have all of the volume of bowlers on your side of the lane. Some one once said to me if you good enough you can bowl on any condition........yeah right!


cheers

Tony

 

[jason_doust]

Maybe this post just illustrates my desire to stand less left than the lefties on the approach, but here goes...

Firstly, good points Strop, but the house patterns used to have oil outside 10 board. They weren't the blocked lanes of today and the balls didn't send the pins into next week. Nor did the balls rip the patterns to bits in minutes. We moved 5-8 boards in a 15 game day with urethane. Even less with plastic. I remember when a lot of house patterns played like the Kegel Challenge Series. They were the respected houses; deemed fair as neither pie house or dungeon. It was sad to see their honour squandered in the pursuit of easy scores by those who thought practising too hard.

And you're right, it's not the lefties fault that they have the best side of the lane to play on. And before any of you start up the flames, with less traffic, transition, breakdown and track topography issues, it's obviously better. End of story.

That's why we need asymmetrical patterns and more volume for that matter. It's only fair that the RHS heads to allow righties to play a board numbered less than 20. As much as I love long formats, perhaps less games is part of the solution.

Symmetrical patterns can only be fair if we have asymmetrical prize funds (i.e. a left and right handed division.) Sorry, but that's just how modern bowling balls have made it.

Alternately, keep symmetrical patterns and make them 45 feet long, so the gutter is not a viable bounce spot and there's something left on the lane at the end of the day. (Kind of fair, but jeez, that'd be ugly...)

 

[wchester]

Seriously, can any of you tell me who is setting the patterns? Surely, one of the rankings tournament bowlers will know.

 

[GeorgeF]

Symmetrical patterns can only be fair if we have asymmetrical prize funds (i.e. a left and right handed division.) Sorry, but that's just how modern bowling balls have made it.

Alternately, keep symmetrical patterns and make them 45 feet long, so the gutter is not a viable bounce spot and there's something left on the lane at the end of the day. (Kind of fair, but jeez, that'd be ugly...)

Jase surely your having a laugh mate.... asymmetrical prize funds? Better stop smoking the devils lettuce down there in ACT

If you think 45ft patterns are going to solve your problem your dreaming. I'll tell you what would happen if AMF laid a 45ft pattern. Apart from having only 40 entries, the righties would start around the track area (10 board) as the edge would be out of play (left and right). After 3 games or less righties would have burnt the heads and would already be throwing 3rd arrow. Give it some more games and you'll be throwing over the left capping because you have burnt the heads in 6 games by forcing all the righties to play inside. Lefties will still be piping it up 10, running over all the righties with 5 games to go.

The problem is not the patterns, its the marathon formats we bowl in this country. If bowled no more than 6-8 games a day bowling results in this country would be a lot different. We are the only country who do this, bowlers here don't like change, subsequently, any lefty who is half decent will always do ok. The right always breaks down, no matter the distance or volume. Shorter formats will just ensure the righties stay a little further right and keep them competitive. In saying that, Andrew Frawley has dominated bowling in Australia over the last 6 months proving that if your good enough, you'll find a way to score on the right.

You can complain all you want, the lane condition never stopped the winner from winning. Some people just decide to get the job done instead of counting the countless boards they have moved in 5 games of play.

Shorter formats is the only answer

 

[GeorgeF]

and to point out the obvious here are my last 3 games from each stage of the SA Cup this year and Brunswick Australian Cup last year is as follows

SA

Stage 1 - 237, 239, 279
Stage 2 - 269, 224, 300
Matchplay - 188, 257, 279


Brunswick

Stage 1 - 204, 247, 215
Matchplay - 257, 287, 219

Get my drift.... whilst this is a serious disadvantage for me to be stating this, without progress and change we won't have anything to bowl in the near future

 

[Jasonguru]

regardless of oil, formats, how you throw it; power, fudger, 2 hand, whatever, at the end of the day accuracy is everything. i say whatever goes down, deal with it. if your accurate and know how to read transition, you will score if you have your a game.

simple as that!

persecutions later thanks

 

[CT]

Jase surely your having a laugh mate.... asymmetrical prize funds? Better stop smoking the devils lettuce down there in ACT

If you think 45ft patterns are going to solve your problem your dreaming. I'll tell you what would happen if AMF laid a 45ft pattern. Apart from having only 40 entries, the righties would start around the track area (10 board) as the edge would be out of play (left and right). After 3 games or less righties would have burnt the heads and would already be throwing 3rd arrow. Give it some more games and you'll be throwing over the left capping because you have burnt the heads in 6 games by forcing all the righties to play inside. Lefties will still be piping it up 10, running over all the righties with 5 games to go.

The problem is not the patterns, its the marathon formats we bowl in this country. If bowled no more than 6-8 games a day bowling results in this country would be a lot different. We are the only country who do this, bowlers here don't like change, subsequently, any lefty who is half decent will always do ok. The right always breaks down, no matter the distance or volume. Shorter formats will just ensure the righties stay a little further right and keep them competitive. In saying that, Andrew Frawley has dominated bowling in Australia over the last 6 months proving that if your good enough, you'll find a way to score on the right.

You can complain all you want, the lane condition never stopped the winner from winning. Some people just decide to get the job done instead of counting the countless boards they have moved in 5 games of play.

Shorter formats is the only answer

To quote a saying i heard on foxtel, "way to go, captain obvious"!

Of course, you could say that the lane condition is what made the winner, not always the best bowler.

Don't see such a down side to asymmetrical prize funds if the righties don't have a chance anyway.

I'm not sure where you get your logic from George, but i think its a little flawed to think that the lefties would kill it on a 45ft pattern. Providing they actually use a decent volume in the front end, you'd find it would be pretty fair for everyone, ie. no one has a shot. The last time i can recall seeing decent volume and length at a ranked event was SPC in 2007. It was damn hard and very fair, even though a lefty did win, he deserved it!

From my observations over the years, the only time that neither side is disadvantaged is when the lane condition is very flat with a decent front end volume. However this is not a lot of fun for the fringe bowlers, nor is it attractive to spectators.

I think this is a thread that everyone is going to end up agreeing to disagree.

 

[CSP]

Walshy is correct about tenpin bowling being in a bad way right now. It's in real trouble. Tournament entries are down, weekly league bowlers are down, TBA Memberships are decreasing rapidly. Australia needs to change fast.

Australia needs to follow in the footsteps of some overseas countries.

I have read all posts and the suggestions are valid ideas. We are in a Global Recession right now and with the reducing of petrol, interest rates, etc; Tournament entry fees need to be reduced. Tournament formats need to change to be able to lower the cost of fees, events other than the 6 majors should be changed to a one day event.

The states sports series are one day events, low entry fee, reasonable prize fund, different lane patterns and have increased their entries since the series began in recent years. Maybe take a leaf out of their book.

The suggestions are being made but it's the organisers that can only make the sport change.

Remember if change doesn't happen, jobs are lost. thats what happens when there is a recession.