Multiple Re-entry tournaments

[GeorgeF]

Almost non existant in this country, I wonder why? They trialed it at the Koolfoam in 1999 with great success and then ????? it dissappeared. There are tremendous advantages to bowling re-entry events and the prizefund takes a good whoop in the $&@#.

I would like the see the views of other bowlers with a dummy tournament I will post below. Tell me what you think and why it would work or why it wouldn't. Here goes.....

DUMMY Superclassic, Champion of Champions (great name I know)

Location: Bankstown Sydney (just an example)

Format: Multiple re-entry, 4 game qualifying, $50 a go. Finalists to be divided into 3 pools. State Pool (A), Inter state Pool (B) and Combined Pool (C). Top 12 in the Pool A, the Top 12 in pool B and Top 12 in the combined pool C advance to the semi finals.

By this I mean locals can qualify over the 1 WEEK PRIOR to the semi's to boost local numbers and promote the event more in their state. Qualifiers will bowl 4 games at $50 attempt. If bowlers do not make their top 12 for their pool, they still have a chance of getting in Pool 3 which will be the combined pool of Staters and Inter Staters. Qualifying squads to be run over Friday and Saturday (should be able to get heaps of squads in, rewashing after every 3).

Semi finals, Top 36 bowlers bowl on Saturday night in the semi's all from scratch. All bowlers will bowl 6 games, field then cuts to 18.

Finals (Sunday), Top 18 to bowl 17 games of head to head matchplay, 30 for a win, 15 for a tie. At the completition of the finals the bowler with the most pinfall from the semi and grand finals is the winner.

For those who didn't quite grasp the concept. You must qualify to get into the finals. Qualifying is $50 per attempt, you can have as many goes as you can afford. If you are bowling in your home state you get to qualify up to a week before the event. Your scores go into Pool A (Home state pool). If you are from out of State, you can bowl anytime Friday or Saturday in order to qualify. Your scores go into Pool B (interstaters). There is also a second chance Pool for next highest 12 scores from each pool, namely Pool C.

Interested to hear your views..............

George

 

[GeorgeF]

I know it's a little confusing, if you have any questions just ask. This format has been copied from a large International event, I'll let you know what it is soon and how it went.

George

 

[RobbieB]

George, as far as the multiple entries being a success in the Koolfoam, the previous year they were turning people away - they got very close to the max 120 entries (at 16 games each). With the multiple entry format, they got about 180 entries, but with a lot of double and even some triple entries. IIRC, they ended up with fewer bowlers and substantially less games bowled.
I personally don't particularly like the idea of multiple entry tournaments, as it can allow those people with deeper pockets to 'buy' their way into the main draw. I think you will also run the risk of some of the fringe bowlers being frightened off if scores are big early. OTOH, fifty bucks is pretty cheap for a tournament, and it might just attract some bowlers who won't risk $150 for a tournament. It's probably worth a shot to see what happens. Maybe you should give Capalaba a ring and see if they have their Grand Prix format organised yet. You never know, if they try this they might get more than 30 entries.
I don't know if I like the idea of 'interstaters' getting a pool of their own - you might only get a dozen turn up! Would your format allow locals to bowl in the Fri/Sat qualifying squads? Also, what sort of cost would you be looking at for the finals (assuming they have a separate entry fee).
Rob.

 

[GeorgeF]

The idea of having 2 pools seperating the Instaters from the local players is to entise more locals to bowl. Hence why qualifying is over 1 week, at $50 you should be able to triple you local bowlers who aren't serious enough to fork out $300 for an entry. The guys who average 190 would be interested, $50 at a chance at $5000, it is a good opportunity.

I can also tell you from experience, you can have all the qualifying attempts you want, you still have to bowl well to get in. I had 10 attempts overseas this year and didn't make it in one of the events. Locals could bowl when ever they want including Friday and Saturday.

The cost of the finals would be around the $100 mark, however First place would be $5000 and pretty top heavy, 16th being around $500.

Also by experience, if you offer $5000 for 1st, the interstaters will come. Especially at $50 a pop. If you jag a good block early, the tournament may only cost you $150 for the whole weekend.

Keep the feed back coming.......

 

[bfcc]

hi george , the multiple re-entry format isn't new to australia. back in the old days the SPC was a re-entry tournament qualifing was done at local cantres with bowlers allowed as many attempts as they wanted ,then the top 12 or 16 (not sure on numbers) would then go and play matchplay the winner then would advance to the national final.these tournaments were held at centres all over australia all year round with the final at the end of the year.

some of the older guys will remember traveling all around se-qld trying to win one just to get to the national final.the SPC was one tournament everyone looked forward to because anyone could make the local centre final and then maybe a national final and then a international final.

i like idea of the re-entry tournament and hope you can get one up and running , even at $50 a try it's worth showing up and giving it a go, this might be a way of getting tournament numbers back up.

 

[Magoo]

Hi all
Sounds alot better at $50 dollars a go,I was put off this sort of idea after bowling in the koolfoam the year they tried it.I THINK it was something like $160 for your first attempt of qualifying(12 games I THINK)then if you didn't do well have another attempt for $90.Have to agree with rob on the entries being a bit down on the year before due to the amount for the games and the amount for the re-entries,really turned the koolfoam into a who had the most money tournament instead of who had the most skill.
Till next time
Tryhard

 

[RobbieB]

Part of the reason that we used to get hundreds of entries in SPC spots is that a 180-190 average bowler who had a good day and averaged 200 had a realistic chance of winning. These days that is just not the case - the scoring gap between the good house bowler and the top echelon is far wider, partly because of the equipment advantages the sponsored bowlers have. For the size of prizefund that George is looking at we would need around 500+ entries. To get that sort of turnout from locals, they have to have some realistic chance of making some cash if they bowl well. Forget the first place money - most of the fringe bowlers just look at making the cut. These are the bowlers that are disappearing from the tournament scene, and top-heavy prize funds don't help. Spread the money around so that anyone making the cut gets a good cheque, not just big $$$ for the top 3 or 4.
Unfortunately we are in the vicious cycle of less bowlers = less money = less incentive to turn up for the next one. When we're at the stage of getting only 30 bowlers to tournaments, people are making cuts, finishing 10th or so and losing money, and most people can't afford that for too long.
The re-entry format is certainly worth a try, but remember which bowlers you are trying to get back, and set up the payout accordingly.

 

[dwambo]

George
Rob has made a very good point about the fringe bowlers.And as for the interstste bowlers.......well lets get QLD numbers back before we invite interstaters.(this is not meant to be offensive to anyone)Its just that we need to get our own backyard before we invite the neighbours.BFCC is correct about the SPC, and back then it was very competitive to make the finals.So as for ur ideas on re-entry tournaments,well it just might work.And lets face it a change is as good as a holiday.

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION!!!

 

[petebowl]

FOR BOWLERS SAKE
I WILL HOST AN EVENT RUN ON THIS FORMAT IF THERE IS ENOUGH INTEREST AND I
WILL NOT CHARGE ANY LINEAGE.....

BOWLERS,THE BALLS FIRMLY IN YOUR COURT.
WHAT CAN YOU DO WITH IT ? :

 

[trev]

the tauranga classic in new zealand held on the 1st weekend of feb every year has a similar format........
just a 3 hour drive south of auckland and your there.....
8 squads of six games........ take your best 2 squads.....
if you have a dud block, there is a chance to make it up,
but the squad numbers are limited, so theres a mad rush to get a spot if in case your on the border line........
you can buy a spot from someone else who doesnt need it, but if there's no spots left, you miss.
the spots a couple of years ago where NZ$60.00, so if you needed 3 shots its the same cost as here (nearly), but the prize money isnt that flash from 6th downwards....
i like the format and would like it used here in aus.......
just for the record, gary bernardin from qld has cut 7 out of 7 times over there......
now thats a great record for an old bloke

 

[sj]

I am one of those fringe 190 average bowlers you have been talking about and I think the multi-entry format is a good idea because I know I would certainly take a second shot if I had not bowled well the first time around . I would love to bowl in every tournament but my job and my finances does not allow me to do that .
In my opinion I think you would get a lot more entries from it .

 

[SCOOPS]

As said early it is not a completely new idea with Multiple entries like previously mentioned the SPC many moons ago was basically a re-entry event with bowlers not only chasing a victory in a centre final but the more finals you bowled the greater chance you had of winning the points and getting a berth in the National Final

Anyone ever having competed in the Singapore Open would know that the Masters is based on re-entries
Amazing since being over here this is the way most tournaments are run, however the way we have done it here i prefer for one small reason, converting to Aussie dollars it is $15 per attempt 3 games however you must play 3 sets and therefore to qualify you can use your best 3 sets. Plus there is a registration fee of $10. They could use their league scores to qualify which only cost them $10.00, which was obviously better for me cause the league had already covered the lineage so this went straight into the p/pool.

Cut to Top 18 cost them $25.00 bowl 6games then Cut to Top 12 Round Robin Top 4 stepladder cost $25.00
I ran my first one for almost 5 weeks, each week there was US$25.00 for the high series and each daily high series I gave a free attempt to.
Everyone in the last cut won money and the winner received US$800.00. 8th place US$50.00 now it wasn’t big money by any stretch of the imagination but they were all happy, which what counts, my next one ran exactly the same but only over 3 weeks
I had just over 500 attempts the first one and around 340 for the 2nd one that wasn’t bad considering there were only 50 registered players for the first and 46 for the second. The second event was held during school holidays and a lot of bowlers tend to take their families out of the country so I was still reasonably happy. Any bowler under a 170 average I gave them 10pins per game handicap to encourage the fringe players to have a go against the countries best.

Perhaps in Australia you could try Registration fee of $20.00
Qualifying over 2 weeks to encourage the locals give handicap to players i mean come on are any of you guys worried about giving a 170 average bowler 10pins a game head start?
Perhaps best 2 sets of 3 games at $20.00 per set
Using League scores maybe $10.00
Therefore if you played well enough it would cost you $60.00

I like the 3 pool scenario however I would make it Top 10 for groups A & B and Top 12 for Mixed - Reasoning I like the idea of giving the locals a chance early and their own squad to bowl in, again just like in Singapore, mind you they would very rarely let us qualify during their week, i would think if an eastern stater wanted to go early they should be allowed to qualify during this week, those buggers use to change the conditions from week to week, hope it doesn’t happen there

Cutting to 32 bowl 6 games @ $40.00.
So now it has cost you a minimum of $100.00
Cut to the Top 16 Top 16 to $60.00
Now it has cost a minimum of $160.00 a little bit better than $300, like George said

Scenario - 1
6 attempts plus rego $140.00
Bowler has played 18 games cheaper than any major around and played more games.
Scenario - 2
10 Attempts (4 in league) made all cuts
Cost $280.00 still good value with having played 39 games (excluding league lineage)
Plus will cash

So lets look at possible income and what prizes would we pay out
Lets take our friends offer and say big thanks, i.e. free lineage
Well this will not be that easy for me, to be honest I haven’t looked at the ratio of interstaters versus locals in the eastern state events but lets have a go
Now we're talking Brisbane I take it from most of the posts

Interstaters - 20
20 @ rego $20.00 = $400.00
Average 5 attempts per player
100 attempts @ $40.00 = $4000.00 into prize pool

Locals - 50
60 rego @ $20.00 = $1200.00
Average 8 attempts (non leag)
480 attempts @ $40.00 = $19200.00
And maybe another
40 attempts during league = $400.00

Top 32 paying in a further $20 = $640.00

Top 16 Paying in a further = $960.00

Stepladder Top 4 no cost

The centre would generate in 2 weeks approximately 2150 games

That is around 150 games less than a field of 120 playing 16 game qualifying cut to Top 20 round robin, however the latter holds up the entire centre for 3 whole days from 9am -7pm so no chance of revenue for centre from general public
Now the former will be run over 2 weeks with the Top 32 bowling Saturday evening maybe 6pm kick off 2 per lane takes what 2 1/2 - 3hrs and still plenty of room for social play plus top 16 the next day well room for more social play.

17th – 18th each receive $100 16th - $600, 15th - $650, 14th - $700, 13th - $750, 12th - $800, 11th - $850, 10th - $900, 9th - $950, 8th - $1000, 7th - $1100, 6th - $1200, 5th - $1500, 4th - $1800, 3rd - $2400, 2nd - $3000 and 1st - $4000 ($22400.00)

Top Qualifier in Pool A & B $500each
You must have a prize for Top Qualifier as an incentive for bowlers to keep trying to get there, also the Top Qualifier doesnt always guarentee in making the final cut as pinfall from this format of qualifying shouldnt really carry over, however the 2nd round could carry over only being 6 games an all why not? up in the air on that one

Income $26800.00 (Worse case scenario one would hope)

Prize Payout of $23400.00
Balance to go to our friendly centre that generously donated lineage
Obviously this would decrease dramatically if the centre charged the lineage that in most cases it would but I am working off the generosity of our friend.

Now my belief the only downer with this whole structure is that the fringe player generally never gets to bowl with the ace bowler and this is on major reason I know Bowlers back in Peth bowl, is so that there’s a chance they can play for 2 days with the likes of Steve Lovell, Carl Bottomley, Andrew Frawley Michael Muir, Brenton Davy, Tom Kury or Steve Hart (the list is endless) this was one way of us canvassing it back then. However now we can canvass the fact that you have 2 bites of the cherry, first bite against only the locals and the second bite is basically a second chance draw.

So there’s my scenario for you pull it to pieces and lets see what happens.

It is a great game that we all play and it would be a sorry day that our tournament calendar shrinks even further.

GIDDY UP !!!!!!!

Looking forward to your comments and changes