M
modson
I WANT TO BUY A NEW BALL BUT I DONT KNOW WHAT IS GOING AROUND, I HAVE AT THE MOMENT A COMPLETE CHOAS (COLUMBIA) AND A MESSENGER (COLUMBIA). HAS ANYONE RECENTLY BROUGHT A NEW BALL AND HOW DOES IT GO?
B
Brenton Davy
Modson,
What type of ball are you looking for?
What conditions do you want it for?
Are you replacing one of your current balls or filling a hole in your arsenal?
I am an international staff member of Team Track 2001 and I can help you with any advice on Track equipment. E mail me if you prefer and we can discuss it.
What type of ball are you looking for?
What conditions do you want it for?
Are you replacing one of your current balls or filling a hole in your arsenal?
I am an international staff member of Team Track 2001 and I can help you with any advice on Track equipment. E mail me if you prefer and we can discuss it.
F
Funky Chicken
Modson,
I have just bought the Crimson Executioner and Green Pearl Gargoyle from a new US company called Visionary.
I gotta tell you these balls rock, especially the Crimson Executioner. It has an awsome roll up to the pocket, and really gets the corner pins out with ease.
There isn't currently a distributor for Visionary in Australia but you can purchase directly from them. If you want more info you can email me at [email protected] or go to www.visionarybowling.com.
The balls will cost you $240 australian to have them delivered to your door, and the Visionary staff are really helpful. In fact I actually dealt directly with the President of the company and he was great.
These guys individually check EVERY ball they make, unlike the 1 in 100 that bigger companies like Track, Storm, Columbia etc.
Give 'em a try, I guarantee you won't be dissapointed. I have 4 Visionary balls (Granite Gargoyle, Green Gargoyle, Crimson Executioner and the Amulet), and I deadset wouldn't trade them for anything else.
I have just bought the Crimson Executioner and Green Pearl Gargoyle from a new US company called Visionary.
I gotta tell you these balls rock, especially the Crimson Executioner. It has an awsome roll up to the pocket, and really gets the corner pins out with ease.
There isn't currently a distributor for Visionary in Australia but you can purchase directly from them. If you want more info you can email me at [email protected] or go to www.visionarybowling.com.
The balls will cost you $240 australian to have them delivered to your door, and the Visionary staff are really helpful. In fact I actually dealt directly with the President of the company and he was great.
These guys individually check EVERY ball they make, unlike the 1 in 100 that bigger companies like Track, Storm, Columbia etc.
Give 'em a try, I guarantee you won't be dissapointed. I have 4 Visionary balls (Granite Gargoyle, Green Gargoyle, Crimson Executioner and the Amulet), and I deadset wouldn't trade them for anything else.
GeorgeF
Hypercell = Hyperhook!
Well Funky Chicken who ever you are, I've got 4 Track balls that are going to stomp all over your Visionary crap come November at the Suncity. How about we play for $10 a game while we are at it, bowling in your house, your great balls should kill me!
How about you crazy tele tubbie?
How about you crazy tele tubbie?
Graham
Staff member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, ">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Funky Chicken:
These guys individually check EVERY ball they make, unlike the 1 in 100 that bigger companies like Track, Storm, Columbia etc.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Can you prove that these companies quality check their product "only 1 in 100" ? That's a pretty big statement to make ... also it doesn't say much for the product you are promoting when you have to put down competitors products to attempt to make the product you are promoting look good.
ps my money is on Frilingos
These guys individually check EVERY ball they make, unlike the 1 in 100 that bigger companies like Track, Storm, Columbia etc.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Can you prove that these companies quality check their product "only 1 in 100" ? That's a pretty big statement to make ... also it doesn't say much for the product you are promoting when you have to put down competitors products to attempt to make the product you are promoting look good.
ps my money is on Frilingos
GeorgeF
Hypercell = Hyperhook!
Don't take things the wrong way, Funky Chicken and I have grown up together and there has always been a lot of friendly rivalry. Last year I won with the Chicken coming 3rd. I'm not a 100% starter this year due to the AUS masters clashing but if I'm there it will be on.
As for the bigger companies checking balls, I would like to know what he means by checking? I know the process in the factory and every ball at Columbia/Track are hand packed, checked and labeled. If that is checking then Columbia and Track are running at 100%. Also remember Columbia/Track have one (if not the) biggest factories in the world. There operation is very smooth and can spit out a lot of balls whilst keeping the quality high.
Look forward to chatting soon, white tele tubbie!
As for the bigger companies checking balls, I would like to know what he means by checking? I know the process in the factory and every ball at Columbia/Track are hand packed, checked and labeled. If that is checking then Columbia and Track are running at 100%. Also remember Columbia/Track have one (if not the) biggest factories in the world. There operation is very smooth and can spit out a lot of balls whilst keeping the quality high.
Look forward to chatting soon, white tele tubbie!
S
steve_jones
I am breaking - by responding to a post under this topic - what has always been a long held personal rule, and that is to avoid engaging in any communication with people who hide behind a pseudonym. However in the case of the individual [I assume it is an individual] "funky chicken" - I will break my long standing position on such matters.
Be advised that Brunswick checks and re-checks, in a stringent quality control environment, every bowling ball we make for all relevant tolerances and blemishes. By this I mean EVERY bowling ball - from the most expensive high technology product to the least costly low weight plastic house ball.
To suggest that a company of our standing, the global leader in the bowling industry, would not have a procedure of this nature in place reflects a total lack of appreciation of fundamental commercial disciplines and equally indicates the ignorance of any individual who would suggest something as inane in today’s highly competitive business [read: bowling] environment.
Whilst I am unable to comment in any formal way on the QC activity of companies such as Storm, Columbia etc - I would doubtless suggest that they too have the exact same procedures in place. They would be irresponsible and business foolish not to have and I can assure you that these companies are tough competition [and they are far from "foolish"] - they didn't become tough competition by failing to meet, what by any standard, are basic quality control procedures.
Steve Jones
General Manager - Asia & Pacific
Brunswick International Limited
Be advised that Brunswick checks and re-checks, in a stringent quality control environment, every bowling ball we make for all relevant tolerances and blemishes. By this I mean EVERY bowling ball - from the most expensive high technology product to the least costly low weight plastic house ball.
To suggest that a company of our standing, the global leader in the bowling industry, would not have a procedure of this nature in place reflects a total lack of appreciation of fundamental commercial disciplines and equally indicates the ignorance of any individual who would suggest something as inane in today’s highly competitive business [read: bowling] environment.
Whilst I am unable to comment in any formal way on the QC activity of companies such as Storm, Columbia etc - I would doubtless suggest that they too have the exact same procedures in place. They would be irresponsible and business foolish not to have and I can assure you that these companies are tough competition [and they are far from "foolish"] - they didn't become tough competition by failing to meet, what by any standard, are basic quality control procedures.
Steve Jones
General Manager - Asia & Pacific
Brunswick International Limited
GeorgeF
Hypercell = Hyperhook!
To the " Fotgotten White Telly Tubby ", we know what happen last year, the hare finished finished 180 infront of 2nd, over 15 games and went on to win. The tortoise whilst finishing a galant 3rd, just couldn't keep the big games coming in the elimination final when it counted. I"ll also remind you that I missed the pocket a grand total of ONCE whilst bowling in the elimination final against you and your friends.
The only way a right hander is going to beat me over 19 games of matchplay in Townsville is if the they shut the left down, which I'm sure in the interest of fairness Dave won't do.
I think $10 is a bit harsh on you per game, we can just have a friendly $50 wager if you want on the final outcome.
LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!
The only way a right hander is going to beat me over 19 games of matchplay in Townsville is if the they shut the left down, which I'm sure in the interest of fairness Dave won't do.
I think $10 is a bit harsh on you per game, we can just have a friendly $50 wager if you want on the final outcome.
LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!
Graham
Staff member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, ">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Funky Chicken:
Graham - you seem like a really smart guy and run an absolutely awsome site, but I gotta tell ya, putting your money on George is like investing in onetel.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
lol
I don't know if i'd go that far ...
Graham - you seem like a really smart guy and run an absolutely awsome site, but I gotta tell ya, putting your money on George is like investing in onetel.
lol
I don't know if i'd go that far ...
S
steve_jones
Mr Hunt - clearly, as you will have determined, it is unwise to blindly repeat misinformation - no matter what the source. In a public forum such as this intentionally tabling misleading information is in fact far more perilous than you might imagine. Perhaps this is the reason why so many people use pseudonyms.
Into this very context so the question from "gusman" falls. But to clarify the situation for the information of others, Brunswick certainly does not send ball "seconds" to any market - it defies any reasonable logic to think this would be the case. The minuscule quantity of balls that fail to meet our QC standards [or do you imagine there are hundreds or even thousands perhaps, be assured that our manufacturing facilities are as fail-safe as is technically possible] are simply destroyed - why on earth would we jeopardise our name and reputation by doing anything else. As for other ball companies and their equivalent policies - you would need to ask them.
Steve Jones
General Manager - Asia & Pacific
Brunswick International Limited
Into this very context so the question from "gusman" falls. But to clarify the situation for the information of others, Brunswick certainly does not send ball "seconds" to any market - it defies any reasonable logic to think this would be the case. The minuscule quantity of balls that fail to meet our QC standards [or do you imagine there are hundreds or even thousands perhaps, be assured that our manufacturing facilities are as fail-safe as is technically possible] are simply destroyed - why on earth would we jeopardise our name and reputation by doing anything else. As for other ball companies and their equivalent policies - you would need to ask them.
Steve Jones
General Manager - Asia & Pacific
Brunswick International Limited
F
Funky Chicken
George ,
You big gaylord, I will definately play you for $50 and show you to be the fraudster that you are. I reckon if you were a righty you couldn't average 180.
I will make sure the first 10 boards on the left have NO oil on them, then you won't be able to play that jaggy down and in shot. Although even that may not be enough to stop someone whose pocket extends from the 4 to the 6 pin. Honestly you are so arsey it is frightening.
The forgotten teletubby
You big gaylord, I will definately play you for $50 and show you to be the fraudster that you are. I reckon if you were a righty you couldn't average 180.
I will make sure the first 10 boards on the left have NO oil on them, then you won't be able to play that jaggy down and in shot. Although even that may not be enough to stop someone whose pocket extends from the 4 to the 6 pin. Honestly you are so arsey it is frightening.
The forgotten teletubby
F
Funky Chicken
First of all as you have probably gathered my real name isn't funky chicken, it's actually Steve Hunt, and I currently live in sunny NQ. I have been bowling for the last 24 years and while I am not as good as a lot of the excellent bowlers in Oz I still average 208 in league and have made President Shield and Rachuig teams in the past.
To George "The Gay Greek" Frilingos - I'll have a piece of your action if you are willing to put your money where your mouth is because you are a pretender and you know I will smash you like I have done soooo many time in the past. I may be the forgotten teletubby, but hey I was built for comfort not speed unlike you (ever hear the story about the tortoise and the hare??)
Graham - you seem like a really smart guy and run an absolutely awsome site, but I gotta tell ya, putting your money on George is like investing in onetel.
Steve Jones - I wasn't trying to bag other ball companies, I was simply relaying what the president of Visionary told me himself. I have bowled with Brunswick balls and they are good, but Visionary are great balls and they have been really good to me so I am simply trying to promote their gear.
Cheers
Steve Hunt
To George "The Gay Greek" Frilingos - I'll have a piece of your action if you are willing to put your money where your mouth is because you are a pretender and you know I will smash you like I have done soooo many time in the past. I may be the forgotten teletubby, but hey I was built for comfort not speed unlike you (ever hear the story about the tortoise and the hare??)
Graham - you seem like a really smart guy and run an absolutely awsome site, but I gotta tell ya, putting your money on George is like investing in onetel.
Steve Jones - I wasn't trying to bag other ball companies, I was simply relaying what the president of Visionary told me himself. I have bowled with Brunswick balls and they are good, but Visionary are great balls and they have been really good to me so I am simply trying to promote their gear.
Cheers
Steve Hunt
AdrianS
This is the future!!!
Just a little question for Mr Jones
Brunswick have bought out quite a few 'tour' edition reactive and active balls over the last few years which, judging by what i've read about them, would have been suited to our dryer conditions(as opposed to some of the more aggressive ones e.g Jade Quantum HPH Zone) Was there any reason why a few of these couldn't have been imported to Australia too?(i know the Jade Tour Edition Quantum was but what about the others?)
Brunswick have bought out quite a few 'tour' edition reactive and active balls over the last few years which, judging by what i've read about them, would have been suited to our dryer conditions(as opposed to some of the more aggressive ones e.g Jade Quantum HPH Zone) Was there any reason why a few of these couldn't have been imported to Australia too?(i know the Jade Tour Edition Quantum was but what about the others?)
S
steve_jones
Adrian,
Good question, although I was pretty sure all our product has been available in recent years in Australia - our Zone range most particularly - however I can't be 100% sure [I don't process or personally see all orders that come into our Hong Kong office for the 20 plus Asia and Pacific countries we look after] and I guess you have done some searching and have not found what you wanted, or else I suspect you wouldn't have raised the question.
Without boring you too much with how we function commercially, let me say that in Australia we are represented by a distributor [as we are almost exclusively on a country by country basis across the entire region] - Heritage Bay/OBS based in Bexley, Sydney are our exclusive distributors for Australia and New Zealand. They select product from our range, import accordingly and distribute via Pro Shops. It is their call what product they import - but I would be pretty sure they have had all our Zone balls in recent years [the owners of Heritage Bay are very alert to the needs of the all bowlers and very particularly the better bowlers in the country] - perhaps the stock went quickly and you missed a particular ball. Perhaps the Pro Shops in your area didn't carry the ball you wanted [to be honest AMF have not been stocking Brunswick product in the vast majority of their Pro Shops over recent times due to a head office directive. The person who initiated this directive is no longer with AMF, so with some luck their position on stocking Brunswick balls may change. Although I do understand that if you asked specifically for a particular ball model they would, and will, get it in for you].
If you want a particular ball I suggest you contact Heritage Bay/OBS and they will obtain it for you - they may very well have it in stock...phone 02 9567-7076 fax 02 9567-7486. Hope this covers it for you.
Now - I don't want to give the wrong impression of what Heritage Bay/OBS does. They are of course an importer and distributor; they are not a retailer to the public. So whilst I know they will help you and advise you - they will most likely supply the balls of your choice to your nominated Pro Shop - or suggest that you to have the Pro Shop you use contact them and place on your behalf the order you want.
Regards
Steve Jones
Brunswick International Limited
Good question, although I was pretty sure all our product has been available in recent years in Australia - our Zone range most particularly - however I can't be 100% sure [I don't process or personally see all orders that come into our Hong Kong office for the 20 plus Asia and Pacific countries we look after] and I guess you have done some searching and have not found what you wanted, or else I suspect you wouldn't have raised the question.
Without boring you too much with how we function commercially, let me say that in Australia we are represented by a distributor [as we are almost exclusively on a country by country basis across the entire region] - Heritage Bay/OBS based in Bexley, Sydney are our exclusive distributors for Australia and New Zealand. They select product from our range, import accordingly and distribute via Pro Shops. It is their call what product they import - but I would be pretty sure they have had all our Zone balls in recent years [the owners of Heritage Bay are very alert to the needs of the all bowlers and very particularly the better bowlers in the country] - perhaps the stock went quickly and you missed a particular ball. Perhaps the Pro Shops in your area didn't carry the ball
If you want a particular ball I suggest you contact Heritage Bay/OBS and they will obtain it for you - they may very well have it in stock...phone 02 9567-7076 fax 02 9567-7486. Hope this covers it for you.
Now - I don't want to give the wrong impression of what Heritage Bay/OBS does. They are of course an importer and distributor; they are not a retailer to the public. So whilst I know they will help you and advise you - they will most likely supply the balls of your choice to your nominated Pro Shop - or suggest that you to have the Pro Shop you use contact them and place on your behalf the order you want.
Regards
Steve Jones
Brunswick International Limited
T
TMK
Its still amazing and amusing when Balling balls get compared from a performance perspective.
Its like comparing the fingerprints or the DNA for each person.
From a manufacturers point of view ,their performance is measured by precision.If they set out to make a ball with x top and y side weight,you want to know ,that is exactly what comes rolling out the other end..exactly that.
The ball driller..the middle man...then takes centre stage..they are the ones who make or break a ball.
How many balls in your arsenal that have the same precise drilling sheet measurements..down to 1/64th have the INDENTICAL grip and feel..not real close..identical.
Is your spare ball identical.
The odds are pretty low against a driller,as our fingers can sense 1/2000 th of an inch variance.
Same manufacturer,same ball,and weights, gets drilled.
One drilling carrys the corner pins the other doesnt.
The third DNA in the equation is then the bowlers..DNA for Dont Know Anything..(in tooooo many cases)
Wrong information evolves..some of it harmless..others damaging.
Its good this forum does exist because there are observers like Steve Jones..who ensure that our sport stays on a level playing field.
I know i would be very interested to know what process each of our ball manuf.use nowadays.
Perhaps Steve you could give this forum a comprehensive guided tour through the Brunswick Factory.
Steve Hunt could perhaps arrange the same by the President of Visionary.
Not to mention all the other ball makers.
Knowledge is not power...knowledge is only information.
How you use that information,is wisdom.
Actions bring power.
Verse 2..chapter 1..from the Tom Kury bible.on this Sunday morning.
Go in peace my children.
Its like comparing the fingerprints or the DNA for each person.
From a manufacturers point of view ,their performance is measured by precision.If they set out to make a ball with x top and y side weight,you want to know ,that is exactly what comes rolling out the other end..exactly that.
The ball driller..the middle man...then takes centre stage..they are the ones who make or break a ball.
How many balls in your arsenal that have the same precise drilling sheet measurements..down to 1/64th have the INDENTICAL grip and feel..not real close..identical.
Is your spare ball identical.
The odds are pretty low against a driller,as our fingers can sense 1/2000 th of an inch variance.
Same manufacturer,same ball,and weights, gets drilled.
One drilling carrys the corner pins the other doesnt.
The third DNA in the equation is then the bowlers..DNA for Dont Know Anything..(in tooooo many cases)
Wrong information evolves..some of it harmless..others damaging.
Its good this forum does exist because there are observers like Steve Jones..who ensure that our sport stays on a level playing field.
I know i would be very interested to know what process each of our ball manuf.use nowadays.
Perhaps Steve you could give this forum a comprehensive guided tour through the Brunswick Factory.
Steve Hunt could perhaps arrange the same by the President of Visionary.
Not to mention all the other ball makers.
Knowledge is not power...knowledge is only information.
How you use that information,is wisdom.
Actions bring power.
Verse 2..chapter 1..from the Tom Kury bible.on this Sunday morning.
Go in peace my children.
Now Tom I knew you had a Legend Card, that came in handy for the Fubar Trio many a Wednesday Evening, but dont be giving out all the Gospel secrets...lol
Nice to you back in the Chat room Mr. Jones it has been awhile and we always appreciate gettting information straight from the top of any company and as for Mr. Hunt an even longer time between drinks - I thought Steve you would have known better though, a guy who has been around as long as you have and with the ability that you have
2 things - one never get into an arguement with a Lefthander cause it will only frustrate you more ...
Secondly I wonder if the President of the Visionary Company would appreciate you openly sledging his competitors.
I may be wrong but i have always been of the belief not to slagg off competitors as the customer will always eventually get to the best product, service, centre, etc.
I cannot agree more with Tom, on the fact that the beauty of our game is that every single one of us is different in every way(thank goodness, it would be a boring place otherwise)
and the Ball driller unfortunately is the guy who can make or break the ball in some cases and I personally think more bowlers should be learning how to cut their own gear especially the fine tuning the top guys all do it so why aren't more proshops teaching guys how to bevel out their own gear, as Tom said a person can feel up to 1/2000th of a difference so shouldnt the player be the one making those final touches, I mean the player is the one feeling the ball not the driller, his job is to no where to put the holes measure the hand & cut the ball
but let us all not forget the number one rule
-- IT's the Dill behind the PILL --
On a personal note getting back to the original point of the post, I would recommend the Rock series at the moment it seems to be having success with a wide variety of bowlers techniques and level of ability, on a variety of lane conditions, but hey this is only my humble opinion, and probably doesnt count for much, to give you a truer recommendation I would prefer to have seen you bowl and also know what exactly you require, is it a front line Oil assault Ball or something when the heads go.
Lets face it choosing a bowling ball over the last ten years is like Pinning the tail on the Donkey, I mean what is Good for Tom Kury, may not work for George Frinlingos or Billy Gardiner, you have to give that poor guy in the proshop a bit of time and work with him get, your specicfications right first then work on all the fancy crap.
-- One Mans meat is another mans poison --
Chapter VI verse IV
Nice to you back in the Chat room Mr. Jones it has been awhile and we always appreciate gettting information straight from the top of any company and as for Mr. Hunt an even longer time between drinks - I thought Steve you would have known better though, a guy who has been around as long as you have and with the ability that you have
2 things - one never get into an arguement with a Lefthander cause it will only frustrate you more ...
Secondly I wonder if the President of the Visionary Company would appreciate you openly sledging his competitors.
I may be wrong but i have always been of the belief not to slagg off competitors as the customer will always eventually get to the best product, service, centre, etc.
I cannot agree more with Tom, on the fact that the beauty of our game is that every single one of us is different in every way(thank goodness, it would be a boring place otherwise)
and the Ball driller unfortunately is the guy who can make or break the ball in some cases and I personally think more bowlers should be learning how to cut their own gear especially the fine tuning the top guys all do it so why aren't more proshops teaching guys how to bevel out their own gear, as Tom said a person can feel up to 1/2000th of a difference so shouldnt the player be the one making those final touches, I mean the player is the one feeling the ball not the driller, his job is to no where to put the holes measure the hand & cut the ball
but let us all not forget the number one rule
-- IT's the Dill behind the PILL --
On a personal note getting back to the original point of the post, I would recommend the Rock series at the moment it seems to be having success with a wide variety of bowlers techniques and level of ability, on a variety of lane conditions, but hey this is only my humble opinion, and probably doesnt count for much, to give you a truer recommendation I would prefer to have seen you bowl and also know what exactly you require, is it a front line Oil assault Ball or something when the heads go.
Lets face it choosing a bowling ball over the last ten years is like Pinning the tail on the Donkey, I mean what is Good for Tom Kury, may not work for George Frinlingos or Billy Gardiner, you have to give that poor guy in the proshop a bit of time and work with him get, your specicfications right first then work on all the fancy crap.
-- One Mans meat is another mans poison --
Chapter VI verse IV
baron
Member
Well Scoops its that time again when the Ballmiester is looking at some new gear (well it has been 3 years) so I need to pick your brain. I'm leaning towards the Trauma or Trauma ER on Carols advice and hope to re-kindle my love affair with Storm gear. Only thing is you gotta come back and drill it for me. LOL Baron.
Ps Tom is not the Messiah he's a very naughty boy!!!!!
Ps Tom is not the Messiah he's a very naughty boy!!!!!
