2003 South Australian Rachuig Roll Offs

[ms]

Here are the results after day one of the SA Rachuig Trials...

MEN
NAME PINFALL - AVERAGE

( 1 ) Rob Chinner 1778 - 222
( 2 ) Sam Parrella 1750 - 218
( 3 ) Rob Modra 1694 - 211
( 4 ) Tony Cottrell 1675 - 209
( 5 ) Tony Long 1672 - 209
( 6 ) Bill Johnson 1625 - 203
( 7 ) Ben Billing 1552 - 194
-----------------------------------------
( 8 ) Scott Smith 1551 - 193
( 9 ) Tavis Johnson 1547 - 193
( 10 ) Ray Hulme 1541 - 192
( 11 ) Danny Ross 1521 - 190
( 12 ) Bruno Maglieri 1515 - 189
( 13 ) Chris Williams 1512 - 189
( 14 ) Des Wragg 1490 - 186
( 15 ) Darren Hannam 1480 - 185
( 16 ) David Sniedze 1469 - 183
=======================
( 17 ) Adam Spencer 1444 - 180
( 18 ) Jeff Elliott 1426 - 178
( 19 ) Mike Newport 1424 - 178
( 20 ) Andrw Xenides 1372 - 171
( 21 ) Andrew Gregory 1369 - 171
( 22 ) Rifat Delalic 1263 - 157


WOMEN

( 1 ) Jo Babic 1546 - 193
( 2 ) Martina Smith 1498 - 187
( 3 ) Lorna Johnson 1479 - 184
( 4 ) Mel Pryor 1465 - 183
( 5 ) Alley Dutton-Briant 1437 - 179
( 6 ) Shelley Cottrell 1425 - 178
( 7 ) Kim Smith 1402 - 175
----------------------------------
( 8 ) Tracy Golding 1338 - 167
( 9 ) Tash Billing 1337 - 167
( 10 ) Lorraine Newport 1290 - 161
( 11 ) Micky Cleggett 1284 - 160
( 12 ) Helen Pellegrini 1253 - 156
( 13 ) Hayley Turner 1181 - 147


After today we were meant to cut to Top 16 in both divisions, but only the MEN could do this as we FEMALES didn't have enough. We bowled 8 games at INGLE FARM, and as you can see by the averages, the scoring for the men was high, but not so for female. The approaches played a massive part in bowling today - all I can say, is that I personally will never bowl there again unless there is no choice. And i won't happily go....

The pinfall is converted into petersen points now so buggered if i am going to work it all out for ya's The next post after the saturday will have the conversion

The next days are on 10th and 11th May, saturday at VILLAGE BOWL and sunday at WOODVILLE BOWL. Then me or someone will post our representative teams.

Good luck to everyone & see you there
Martina

 

[Tash]

Oh come on Marty, you can work out the conversions for us :wink: it'll save me doing it later for myself!!!!!


I would have to agree with Marty on the approaches, they did play a huge roll and were just a litlle sticky!!

Good luck for the next stage to all involved

 

[spence]

i cant say to much cuz ive only got myself to blame for the way i bowled.. a good bowler can adjust to any condition.. if they can keep the ball on the lane.. but just a lil bit of oil would have been nice.. considering its the only center in s.a with a kegel oiling machine youd think they would lay a condition similar to the condition they use at rachuig.? well good luck to everyone who makes it on wood lanes.. i hear townsville is synthetic?

cheers spence 8)

 

[ms]

Thanks for bringing that up Spence, I forgot that. How is it possible that dIngle Farm has a Kegal machine, but NOT ABLE to put up a decent condition??!?!?! :roll:

Personally, i found the lanes to be dry, and very patchy... BUT the approaches really sucked!! I mean, i have never had soooooo much trouble with approaches in my 20 years of bowling. It's total bullsh*t. Never ever going there, unless forced...

As for the lanes, well, Kegal versus normal machines.. Well, one would think a similar oiling pattern to actual Rachuig woulda been better.. But then, wood.. WHY!!!!! Townsville IS synthetic. Yeah, let's have one roll off day out of THREE on synthetic.. Logic... GO TBA.SA!! Anyway... dIngle Farm coulda done a better job.. And as for returning.... Unless things change, a lot of bowlers that I spoke to, won't be

But on a happier nicer note... Bring on Village... At least i know i can slide and there is oil most of the time 8)

Martina

 

[spence]

yeah bring on village.. hopefully someone pulls out and i get a second chance?? every1 deserves a second chance right?? 17th to 7th?? can it be done?? but yeah youd think if you were gunna pick a top 16 in a 8 game sprint you'd want them to be able to bowl on the condition that they have to compete on?? makes sense to me.. obviously not everyone.. anyone who didnt bowl u can bowl on a similar condition at elizabeth these days, dry dry dry.. but im not whinging.. just hope there is a lesson that will be learnt out of this... again.

 

[Tash]

Hey Spence, You are right about the lanes, we can adjust and most people did but found them dry even after oiling , I think the complaints were actually about the approaches.

Sure I did not bowl fantastic but I managed ok, if we were able to slide instead of stick things may have been different!!!!! I am another bowler like Marty who has not had much trouble with sticky approaches in my years of bowling but Sunday was just a little on the sticky side for my liking!!

Don't quote me on this but I believe a few people even put a sock on their sliding foot to stop sticking and once they did they found it much easier to bowl as they were actually sliding and not just stopping and could complete their approach properly.

Kegel machine - I did not know they had one!! :shock: anyway, bring on Village


Good luck to all 16 men and 13 women for the final stage

 

[ms]

Ok Tash... Here are the hopefully correct conversions for the TOP 16 Men and 13 Women.. They are in Peteresen Points.

Dont ever say I don't do anything!! 8)


MEN
Rob Chinner 35.28
Sam Parrella 35.00
Rod Modra 33.44
Tony Cottrell 33.25
Tony Long 33.22
Bill Johnson 32.25
Ben Billing 31.02
-------------------------------
Scott Smith 31.01
Tavis Johnson 30.47
Ray Hulme 30.41
Danny Ross 30.21
Bruno Maglieri 30.15
Chris Williams 30.12
Des Wragg 29.40
Darren Hannam 29.30
David Sniedze 29.19


WOMEN

Jo Babic 30.46
Martina Smith 29.48
Lorna Johnson 29.29
Mel Pryor 29.15
Alley Dutton-Briant 28.37
Shelley Cottrell 28.25
Kim Smith 28.02
----------------------------------
Tracy Golding 26.38
Tash Billing 26.37
Lorraine Newport 25.40
Micky Cleggett 25.34
Helen Pellegrini 25.03
Hayley Turner 23.31


Since we get ONE point (50pins) for a win in head to head - it is very important to win your games. Hopefully these point above are all correct. If not, they will be updated after the next trial anyway.

Happy now Tash
See ya soon
Martina

 

[Tash]

Oh Marty you are a ledgend!! Thankyou for that!!


at least one of us has a brain :wink:

 

[SNEEZY]

Sorry Spence, knocked out of the 16 by 25 pins. Its a shame that it has to come down to such close pin fall, And to think that after the 7th game you were sitting out of the 16 by only 2 pins (ouch). I guess that is just the way the pins fall.

However, I have heard that Tony Cottrell has decided to pull out of the 2nd Stage. Don't quote me on that, but it might be something you should look into. If that is the case then I guess i'll see you on the lanes again next weekend.

From reading the posts on this subject, it sounds like some people were having trouble on the approaches. Personally, I didn't think that there was any problem with them. I will agree that compared to when I went down a couple of weeks before the tournament to have some practice the lanes were fairly dry. But unlike any other centre, a dry lane is one of many conditions that can be presented to a bowler when bowling tournaments. Its up to the bowler to be able to adjust to the condition that is on the lane.

Anyway. Good Luck to those who are bowling in the second stage next week including myself.

See You There.

 

[BlobOn]

Ok people, a message from a bottom dweller. I didnt get anywhere near making the cut, but its not the conditions fault. I bowled crap.

Correct me if im wrong, but weren't the conditions the same for everyone? Isnt the idea of a roll off to find the best bowlers? wouldnt the best bowlers be the ones that can adjust to the conditions of the centre?

I thought the conditions were a whole lot better than cross roads and norlunga last year. As for the approaches, I had absolutely no issues at all, and i have a huge slide. If you cant adjust to conditions at different centres how can you expect to be on a travelling team?

 

[Tash]

BlobOn , the complaints Im sure are about the approaches and not conditions!! For people to wear a sock just to silde well i won't say anymore.

I adjusted to the conditions ,I'm sure everyone else did too but for people to wear socks to slide and 3 or so people falling or walking on the lanes due to the sticky approaches does not mean that people cannot expect to be on a travelling team.


I found Noarlunga and Cross Roads to be ok last year nothing to complain about but not everyone likes certain conditions and may have trouble adjusting to them, but it still should not be held against them at all.


Anyway don't take this offensively it is not ment for that and I wish you all the best for your next tourney and try outs next year

 

[ms]

First of all, BlobOn, got something to say, please put your name to it whoever you are.

Second of all, I have never once complained about the lane coditions on here. Maybe verbally, but I honestly didnt think they were as bad as some others were saying. The only thing I was complaining about were the approaches - I have never bowled somewhere where they are so inconsistant. I found them to be very very slow, but yet fast in places, therefore my complaint. I still stick by what I said in my first post, I will not bowl there again unless it is a requirement for me to do so, and then I will try anything to get out of it. Ok, we got that issue sorted??

And last of all, can you honestly say that having a "ROLL-OFF" determines the "BEST" bowlers that the State has to offer? Be realistic now.. Last year, Bill Johnson missed out on the Mens Team, you not class him as one of the Best guys this State has to offer? Not to mention OTHER States this year. For example, South Queenland, a woman bowler was not 100% fit to bowl, however did so still, didn't make the top 5 and was not selected either. BUT, last year she made the All-Stars. Hows that fair? And is 7 past the post really the best way to get the BEST bowlers bowling for your State?????? Really??? Another thing on this, again, can you honestly say that with 7 past the post, how are you going to get the BEST 7 Male and Female bowlers representing your State, when the place they are going to in Novemeber has SYNTHETIC lanes and wooden approaches and all they bowl the trials on are Wood, Wood and one TOTALLY SYNTETIC. Explain the logic to me where you can get your BEST TEAMS??????

Food for thought, no hard feelings, just a few answers for ya BlobOn

Cheerio
Martina

 

[Greig]

Sneezy, I can assure you that Tony Cottrell has no intention of pulling out of the next stage.
Neither is Tony Long, although unsure if he will make the trip to Townsville if he makes the team, due to work commitments.

 

[strop]

Marty,
Just wondering how or what you base your opinions on when it comes to rachuig. Is is fact or fiction........Every-one knows the rules when they come into a tournament or roll-offs like this. Agreed that the conditions are the same for every one.......just means who can make the most of it. Strange that even the comments made also after the Country Cup were about the approaches as well that they didn't do something about them considering that one of the owners is a well know Bowling Centre installer with many years of experience., however good to Robby chinner ave 222 (a man who always knows a sticky approach know matter what centre your in) sitting on top of the men but that's expected considering of his years of experience.
As far as first 7 past the post........you know my feeling about that ......let's not go back 18 years in this state.you earn your way into the team.........even Bill knows that.
Just because you make a all-star team last year doesn't give you a free ticket to the team this year.
Considering the lack of depth in both team try-outs this year you make the best of what you got and that's as they say is that.
P.S. in 1985 when all of the trials were held at woodville ,since the nationals were at woodville that year....it was our worst finish this state has had since then.
Try not to make yourself look to silling when you start talking about logic., however just remember if we to go to selection many of us ??????? would never make a team....no matter how good we are.
Have a good one.
Tony stoppel

 

[Tash]

I don't think anyone has complained about the lane conditions, just the approaches,yes they were sticky and slow but hey we all plodded on and got through day did we not? :?

And to Tony for pointing out Country Cup, I had heard that the approaches were slow and sticky just like last week and it was not the conditions people were complaining about.

Still I do not know all the facts of what happened at country cup, just what I have been told so I will leave it at that.

My only question is " are we not allowed to verbally complain about things or even write them down without being criticised?"
Some people dislike bowling at one centre for their reasons and love bowling at others , it is their preference but still do not hold that against them it does not mean they cannot adjust or so on.

I am sure we have all had a whinge at one time or another about a condition/approaches but managed to adjust so why is that when it is actually written down we all seem to get "well you should have adjusted" or " I had no problems" ?

But that is just my thought so no-one take offense to this it is just my oppinion and is not attacking anyone, we are all entitled to say what we want, so with that peace to all

 

[ms]

Tony, and anyone else who wants to attack me on here :twisted:

So you're telling me that TOP 7 past the post is the best way to get your best bowlers.. Please... Be realistic. I don't think it is the best way as such. What if a well known TOP bowler does have an absolute shocker and misses... Not fair to miss out??? What about exemptions? Fair enough, yes, the State would be going back years n years, I'm not saying we should go back to selection.. But i am saying its not always the best bowlers that get in to the top 7!!! By the way, in what year was the TOP 7 past the post first done for SA... Anyway, topic CLOSED with me!!!

As for rolling off in similar centres... Well, I believe it is alot more beneficial to roll off in a similar centre.. Bringing up things from almost 20 years ago - theres an idea. It's in the past.... LEAVE IT THERE.... But here, today, would make more sense having roll offs in SIMILAR centres, as the knowledge of techs today would benefit everyone dont you think????

Anyway, dont wanna argue with anyone, and god i cannot wait til saturday at village - at least i know i can slide and what sorta condition we are gonna have 8) LOL!!

Cheerio again
Martina

p.s - tony, please refrain from attacking me on here. I am just voicing my opinion along with others ok!!

 

[strop]

Marty,
No- ones attacking you (bit of a harsh word anyway), I disagree with what you say with your limited experience.
First 7 past the post was introduced in 1985 after in 1984 the male bowlers who finished 3RD and 4TH after the trials didn't make the team but instead they dragged up a bowler from way down in the list.
You call that fair.!!!!!
Good on Ya!!!
Tony

 

[spence]

well well well.. havent i missed out on the action.. teach me to forget to check total bowling..

blobon ill start with u... has to be andrew xenides...
correct me if im wrong.. but did u get anywhere near the cut last year and do u still owe me a bottle of bourbon??? black label beam now i think.. its been long enough.. probably why u thought the conditions were better than last year cuz u didnt loose anything.. but hang on.. r u the one who doesnt judge conditions so how can they be better or worse they're just different conditions.. so make sure your in a position and paid up before you post your opinions buddy.. :evil:

sneezy yeah thanx for knocking me out but dont b sorry that is the way pins fall.. some have luck, others class and no luck.. :wink: but i only have myself to blame, your just the name above mine could've been any1.. but ill let you have the limelight.. for now... it wont happen too often.. good luck hope too c u on the lanes..

now for everyone else.. yes there is no excuse for missing the cut but u bowled bad or someone bowled better... but i think this would only be the case in a tourny.. if u want the best it should be on a consistencey level not a 8 game sprint u have a bad day at nationals u get benched next day u blow the house apart but the ability to be able to do this only comes out in the best, some one who can bowl ALMOST anywhere.. someone who can recover..

every one has valid points but u dont see a ice hockey team get picked from grass hockey players or water polo team get picked from horse polo players.. a bit of planning needs to occour if u want the best most consistent team and rolloffs still need to occour to add the 'pressure' situation but realistically maybe the top twenty bowlers in the state from league ave's and tourny results should have the right to compete for the 'honour' to represent their state.. im all for earning the right to make a team but this format creates windows for inconsistent or 'house/home' bowlers to get in, have a good day any u can set yourself up to cruise in to a state team

this isnt a dig or critisism at anyone just something to think about..

ya'll take care now.. looking forward to the responses
cheers spence 8)

 

[Foggy]

have been reading your posts guys and thought i'd add my two bobs worth. wether the conditions were bad or the approaches sticky in my view is irrelevant. what i'm having trouble with is i have one bad day and it's all over red rover no cahnce to recover as spence i think you were alluding to.

jeff elliott.

 

[spence]

yes jeff, thats what i was alluding to, i spoke to one of the higher profile bowlers after the roll offs and he couldnt believe that 3 people he thought had a good chance of making the team were out with no come back.. no repocharge.. no second chance.. bowlers who have a history and the ability to be able to come from nowhere. and mate i feel for u its hard to be a good bowler who has an off day and for some weird reason not lack of trying, cant redeem themselves.. :x at least u still got seniors im too young for that and to old for youth so i got a year to wait for a shot at a state team again but hey i heard theres a councilor doing the rounds offering his services to disappointed bowlers, maybe he can help u mate :wink: just kidding.. take care looking forward to a guiness with ya :lol:

cheers spence 8)