Should a Sub be allowed

should a sub be allowed

  • Total voters
    81
A

}-Adam-{

iLuZoN
A meeting will be held tomorrow for our league to decide if a substitute can be used for a bowler.

here is the facts that i know:
*somehow injured cant bowl for a few weeks
*in last 2 weeks of league
*currently in third
*anyone as far as 5th or 6th can catch them
*the sub they are requesting to use is on a higher average
*the sub is my teams official sub
*our league states that subs are not to be used in last 3 weeks
*league is %based handicap
*they are going to put it to a vote for the league to decide

i feel that the vote should only come from teams that they are playing and from teams that can be affected in postions that can be gained or lost!!

please vote
 
Yes.
Sub that was to be used is a team member of the injured bowler in the SNSW president shield, just one bolwer helping a team member out. Nothing more.

The average difference is marginal as both bowlers are evenly matched.
Based on current NSW junior rankings.

But the issue is moot ...Injured bowler will hobble to the lanes and bowl such is his committment and his concern that he does not wish to create an issue.
 
As long as it is not a NEW sub to the league and the injured bowler pays all fees for the sub, there should be NO problem at all.
 
Just so people know, this isn't to cause argument, i just thought it would be an interesting topic. But yes the sub has already bowled in this league just not for there team. And i know that the 1 or 2 pin difference between ave + handicap between the 2 bowlers isnt much, but when you consider the amount of draws or very very close matches, less than 10 pins this league is crazy. i know that we have had 2 draws in last 10 weeks, once striking out to do so, the other i had the 8 pin slide forward next to the 2 pin, to draw...

This is a doubles league just so you know
 
i think this is what you might be looking for

From the TBA Rule Book
RULE 322 TRANSFERRING TEAM MEMBERSHIP
A player who has competed with a team and whose scores have counted in deciding games may transfer to another
team of the league during the season provided:
1. The captain of his/her existing team consents to the transfer.
2 Two-thirds of the league’s team captains agree to the transfer.
3. A player so transferred may not return to any team with which he had previously played during that season.
 
If its the last 2 weeks in the league and your consitution states that no subs are permitted in those weeks, I cant see how you could use them?
 
Two points that stand out to me (both of which have been touched on)
1) The sub has bowled in another team (yours). Therefore for him / her to change teams they must resign from their current team
2) Your constitution states "no new bowlers in the last three weeks". As you only have two weeks to go the constitution would need to be changed - and as Andrew said that would require 100% of bowlers to agree to this change.

Unless both these requirements are met, in my opinion, the sub cannot bowl with the new team.
 
In an exceptional circumstance (such as this), one would hope that compassion would play a major part in the decision at hand. Hopefully the other league members will imagine themselves in a similar situation.

If the person has subbed before and is in good standing a meeting should be held to ammend the constitution to allow a sub in a serious and unforseeable circumstance. On the other hand rules are rules and unless it is a unanamous vote it could end up being disallowed.

Good luck and we hope it works out for you!
 
Compassion aside we all know injuries can occur at anytime during the season. I don't believe this is a strong enough excuse to be making amendments to the constitution this late into the season.
 
That's fair too Peter.

Wonder whether this league is allowed open pre bowls?
If so would someone have enough up their sleeve to see the season out (if needed) if they do is there a cut off to how many open prebowls someone can store up.

Another question, wouldn't they be eligable to use a blind score (average less 10) that's gotta be better than nothing if a sub is not allowed.
 
}-Adam-{ said:
*in last 2 weeks of league
...
*our league states that subs are not to be used in last 3 weeks
Click to expand...

If the constitution states that no subs are to be used in the last 3 weeks of the season, then surely this sub cannot be used. That is, unless the constitution is changed part-way through the season. In which case i think the whole league would have to vote, not just the team captains.

just my 2 cents
 
I've never been a fan of changing constitutions once the season has begun. There would have to be a death in the family to make me agree to it. Most of us have been involved in this sport long enough to know what to expect throughout the season. Injuries are going to happen. Can't predict them. Can't avoid them.

Seriously, what's the point of "our league states that subs are not to be used in last 3 weeks" if you don't intend to enforce it? Provisions should be made when the constitution is drawn up, at the beginning of the season. Not during the last few weeks.

Just my opinion.
 
Can someone clear up the reasons why this rule is put into place? In my opinion, I don't think it matters whether the substitute is made in the second week or the second last.

If there is concern about averages, a handicap league would surely make it a level playing field - just let the bowler play on their regular h'cap. Scratch leagues I can understand the concern, but not for a handicap league.
 
What difference does it really make if it's a handicapped league or a scratch league? Is one taken less seriously than the other by the participants?
 
weggy said:
Can someone clear up the reasons why this rule is put into place? In my opinion, I don't think it matters whether the substitute is made in the second week or the second last.
If there is concern about averages, a handicap league would surely make it a level playing field - just let the bowler play on their regular h'cap. Scratch leagues I can understand the concern, but not for a handicap league.
Click to expand...
I would think the rule is in place to stop "team stacking". With only two weeks to go what is stopping a team that is running second from substituting a lower average or out of form bowler with an in form or higher average bowler to better their chances at winning. This would be especially relevant in a league that has high cash payouts for the winners. If you changed a bowler second week of season, i would think it has much smaller ramifications than if you swapped in the last two weeks.

That is why i think the rule is in place -- not the issue in this instance, but i think it is a good rule. If a bowler does get injured it is extremely bad luck and use their blind score if you don't have a qualified sub.

Most teams i have bowled in have one or two spare bowlers that have qualified for finals, just in case something goes wrong (usually due to people who cannot bowl because of other committments rather than injury)
 
PeterB,
No, a scratch league is not necissarily taken more seriously than a handicapped leagu. But what weggy is trying to say is, that a sub-bowler with no handicap, (ie; ave is higher than 200 in most cases), does not have a massive advantage in a handicapped league, as in a lot of cases the scratch bowler will come up against bowlers with quite a big handicap. For instance, I am a scratch bowler & in one of the leagues that I used to bowl in, there were a lot of sub 200ave bowlers, so i came up against handicaps anywhere in the range of 30pins through to sometimes, 70, or 80pin handicaps.

This means i MUST bowl my ave to even have a chance of winning. so it does in effet, level the playing field somewhat.

In a scratch league where there are no handicaps, I may ave 205 & be scheduled to bowl against someone with a very similar ave, but if they were to bring in a sub, who had a 220 ave, I would object to this subsitution as his ave is much higher than the person I was supposed to bowl against, hence, giving me a bit of a disadvantage.
 
The injured bowler turned up with the sore knee and bowled, so no meeting was really taken.. But in my honest opinion, the bowler actually bowled better than normal, with the sore knee he had to slow his approach down and the ball looked awesome. Even a few other bowlers agreed
 
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