Tips on how to kill a prestigious National Event

[GeorgeF]

Brisbane Cup 2002

NEW DOUBLES FORMAT
Each bowler play eight (8) games in two game block, i.e. a total of 16 games for each team. All placings determined by total scratch pinfall.

Prize fund payout: all prizes are teams prizes and are based on a minimum of 20 teams. Payout may be adjusted to suit actual entries.

PLACINGS
1st $700.00
2nd $450.00
3rd $325.00
4th $225.00
5th $175.00
6th $150.00

BLOCK AWARDS
There will be a cash award of $100.00 for the high series in each two game block. The award can only be won once by any team.

In the event of the team that has already won a block award achieving a high series in another block, the award will be paid to that team with the next highest series who has not won an award.

RULES AND REGULATIONS
1. This is sanctioned TBA tournament, open to all bowlers with current sports registration.
2. Combined averages of any team may not exceed 350. Highest league average must be used at the time of tournament will be used to determine eligibility.
3. No bowler will be permitted more than one entry.

Please note rule #2.

I was looking forward to bowling this event until I read one of the rules which stated that the combined avg of the bowlers was not to exceed 350.

I remember how much prestige the Brisbane Cup use to attract 10 years ago and now we have a handicap doubles event. This has turned into a bit of a joke and I won't be supporting it this year.

Perhaps if AMF wanted to run a fun doubles event for league bowlers they could have called it something else, but to take the Brisbane Cup name and turn it into a joke event is ridiculous.

Even as a doubles event I would have bowled but to have it capped at 350 is insane. The first AMF Grand Prix was a no tap, the second event (Western Open) doesn't have a matchplay segment and now we have a capped doubles. I have no idea where AMF is heading with this but the light at the end of the tunnel for open scratch bowlers is fading.

I am not bagging AMF, I fully support and have bowled every stop on the NSW Grand Prix tour but Queenslands vision has to be looked at. I suspect they won't get 20 teams.

I'm sure some great bowlers such as Alan Atkins would be turning over in his grave if he saw what had happened to the once almighty Brisbane Cup.

 

[Kim B]

Well George,

AMF is trying something different. It may have been a prestigious event 10 years ago. But as the numbers have been dwindling down through the years with the exact same format, they wanted something new.

I'd like to know what is wrong with trying to attract the league bowlers? You bowled the tournament last year and the numbers were quite poor. Why not try something different, atleast give it a go and see what happens, you can always improve on things.

As was said about the Western Open by a forum member from down south (if i remember correctly), why would you bowl the tournament? The reply from another member was if you don't like it don't bowl it.

It's as simple as that.

For open scratch bowlers, the light at the end of the tunnel isn't fading. Look how many tournaments they have that are scratch. And AMF is helping this along. One example is the Super Six Tournaments.

Thanks
Kim.

 

[trev]

i have to agree with george here.

the "brisbane cup" has been over many years a sought after trophy and won by some class acts.......bradford has won it 3 or 4 times.

ok........the numbers have dwindled
1998 ....60 odd bowlers
1999 ....110+ bowlers
2000.....60 odd bowlers
2001.....21 bowlers

options....
a) dont have it
b) dont call it something its not
c) it never has been and never should be a doubles event, so dont go there
d) tournament director should get off his chair and get the numbers to hold this event as it always has been......scratch and singles.....

tuff times are here for bowling numbers i have to agree, but there are still the some tournies getting in some great entries,

yes, lets be a brave amf centre manager and create some new ideas for extra entries, but a hcp'd event is not a major city cup.

if the melbourne cup had a dramatic down turn of entries over the next few years i,m sure there would be the same concern if they come up with this format as a replacement.

 

[Magoo]

I think the first thing to do would be lifting the 350 team average limit.That way if two scratch bowlers wanted to team up and have a go at this tournament they could,at least then if they do have a few bad games in a row then they would still be able to have a good time.Now as much as i am going to have wash my mouth out I am going to agree with george,I saw the entry form,saw that it was doubles(no problem there),saw the team limit,put the entry form down ,then did not worry about it again.Yes AMF are trying different formats to bring more bowlers into tournaments,but there is no point shutting out the intermediate bowlers(the 180-200 average) who can't afford the cost of the super six events.
I wouldn't mind having a bowl but, with my league average being what it is means i would not have a very enjoyable day for personally.
Till next time
Tryhard

 

[Graham]

The year they got 110+ for the Brisbane Cup the outside 7 or 8 boards were dry. The following year the faithful locals came back, condition was much the same. You cannot blame this events history for its own downfall. The track record of the conditions laid down for tournaments need to be looked at as well.

The condition at this particular centre wasnt that great for the Koolfoam last year, and it's conditions before that tournament and since, no matter what anyone says, leave a little to be desired.

Like it or not, in the situation where the majority of us are weekend enthuisiasts and earn a living to pay for our bowling like everyone else, we don't want to spend $160 on a tournament on a difficult condition because it "builds character" and "makes you a better bowler". Granted - if it was a true tough condition and bad shots were punished well then fairs fair. But dry dry dry crappy conditions ?? Honestly ..

If a bowler has a choice of going fishing or to go about hurling their 15lb bowling balls at 30km+ per hour just to hit the right hand side of the headpin, I know what i'd rather be doing.

Maybe a way to entice some of the bowlers back is to put some oil down. I can almost guarantee that if the NSW GRand Prix laid down some of the rubbish that is served up as conditions for Qld Grand Prix tournaments then that tournament circuit would fail, much the same the Qld one has.

I am not out to attack any lane people from any centres, or the managers of any centres, so if you think I am doing that please get off your horse. What ive said really are just facts and something needs to happen. How that is going to happen i've got no idea - I dont own a magic wand - I think all I ask is if we are going to have tournaments in this state, let us have oil.

 

[Graham]

Heres an idea if you want to have half handicap, half scratch or whatever to try and entice bowlers back :

Run it like the VIC150 ladies tournament. Scratch bowlers bowl their qualifying, Hcap bowlers bowl their qualifying at the same time, top 16 (top 8 or whatever) from each division then team up : one scratch bowler one hcap bowler. I think in that tournament the first place scratch gets partnered with the 8th placed hcap bowler ? (is that how it works?)

I think oe of the problems is finding a partner (for the 200+ average bowlers) because more often than not these bowlers are bowling in Scratch leagues and dont bowl league with the 150 average bowlers. So instead of forcing the bowlers to partner themselves up BEFORE the tournament, do it for the finals.

Just an idea ....

 

[westie]

Slightly off track...

In Perth we had a little grand prix series. The numbers werent all that big, but plenty ppl turned up to most of them. Then they limit it to max 190 avg then the tournament folds never to be seen again

I wonder why.

Attracting league bowlers is fine and I think it's a good thing, but make sure you actually attract them or go out and get them otherwise you will have a flop on your hands.

The other point to note is that when you change a tournament format from open scratch to some other format to help lower bowlers you must change the name of the tournament, otherwise those bowlers you are trying to attract will still recall that the bowlers who bowl that tournament are really good and that they couldnt compete against them.

Read Frawls post under: Are all the major tournaments doomed? , to see what should be done to improve numbers.

 

[RobbieB]

I agree with George here, regarding the name and he points. As far as the tournamnt itself goes, we need affordable tournaments for the 160-180 average people as stepping stones toward scratch tournament bowling. Calling it the Brisbane Cup is an insult to the history of this event, though, and using this as a GP tournament to count towards the points is ridiculous.
As far as the numbers for the BC go, AMF killed it with that ridiculous points format they had the last couple of years.
Yes the condition at Mt Gravatt varys from horrible to impossible, and that s something that AMF Qld need to seriously look at if they want to get some decent number back to the tmt circuit. Having said that, don't write off the Western Open - Richlands usually puts out a playable and fair condition. It's just a pity they don't get Victor to do the shot for all the GP events.
Rob.

 

[GeorgeF]

Brisbane Cup 2002

NEW DOUBLES FORMAT
Each bowler play eight (8) games in two game block, i.e. a total of 16 games for each team. All placings determined by total scratch pinfall.

Prize fund payout: all prizes are teams prizes and are based on a minimum of 20 teams. Payout may be adjusted to suit actual entries.

PLACINGS
1st $700.00
2nd $450.00
3rd $325.00
4th $225.00
5th $175.00
6th $150.00

BLOCK AWARDS
There will be a cash award of $100.00 for the high series in each two game block. The award can only be won once by any team.

In the event of the team that has already won a block award achieving a high series in another block, the award will be paid to that team with the next highest series who has not won an award.

RULES AND REGULATIONS
1. This is sanctioned TBA tournament, open to all bowlers with current sports registration.
2. Combined averages of any team may not exceed 350. Highest league average must be used at the time of tournament will be used to determine eligibility.
3. No bowler will be permitted more than one entry.

Please note rule #2.

I was looking forward to bowling this event until I read one of the rules which stated that the combined avg of the bowlers was not to exceed 350.

I remember how much prestige the Brisbane Cup use to attract 10 years ago and now we have a handicap doubles event. This has turned into a bit of a joke and I won't be supporting it this year.

Perhaps if AMF wanted to run a fun doubles event for league bowlers they could have called it something else, but to take the Brisbane Cup name and turn it into a joke event is ridiculous.

Even as a doubles event I would have bowled but to have it capped at 350 is insane. The first AMF Grand Prix was a no tap, the second event (Western Open) doesn't have a matchplay segment and now we have a capped doubles. I have no idea where AMF is heading with this but the light at the end of the tunnel for open scratch bowlers is fading.

I am not bagging AMF, I fully support and have bowled every stop on the NSW Grand Prix tour but Queenslands vision has to be looked at. I suspect they won't get 20 teams.

I'm sure some great bowlers such as Alan Atkins would be turning over in his grave if he saw what had happened to the once almighty Brisbane Cup.

 

[Kim B]

Well George,

AMF is trying something different. It may have been a prestigious event 10 years ago. But as the numbers have been dwindling down through the years with the exact same format, they wanted something new.

I'd like to know what is wrong with trying to attract the league bowlers? You bowled the tournament last year and the numbers were quite poor. Why not try something different, atleast give it a go and see what happens, you can always improve on things.

As was said about the Western Open by a forum member from down south (if i remember correctly), why would you bowl the tournament? The reply from another member was if you don't like it don't bowl it.

It's as simple as that.

For open scratch bowlers, the light at the end of the tunnel isn't fading. Look how many tournaments they have that are scratch. And AMF is helping this along. One example is the Super Six Tournaments.

Thanks
Kim.

 

[trev]

i have to agree with george here.

the "brisbane cup" has been over many years a sought after trophy and won by some class acts.......bradford has won it 3 or 4 times.

ok........the numbers have dwindled
1998 ....60 odd bowlers
1999 ....110+ bowlers
2000.....60 odd bowlers
2001.....21 bowlers

options....
a) dont have it
b) dont call it something its not
c) it never has been and never should be a doubles event, so dont go there
d) tournament director should get off his chair and get the numbers to hold this event as it always has been......scratch and singles.....

tuff times are here for bowling numbers i have to agree, but there are still the some tournies getting in some great entries,

yes, lets be a brave amf centre manager and create some new ideas for extra entries, but a hcp'd event is not a major city cup.

if the melbourne cup had a dramatic down turn of entries over the next few years i,m sure there would be the same concern if they come up with this format as a replacement.

 

[Magoo]

I think the first thing to do would be lifting the 350 team average limit.That way if two scratch bowlers wanted to team up and have a go at this tournament they could,at least then if they do have a few bad games in a row then they would still be able to have a good time.Now as much as i am going to have wash my mouth out I am going to agree with george,I saw the entry form,saw that it was doubles(no problem there),saw the team limit,put the entry form down ,then did not worry about it again.Yes AMF are trying different formats to bring more bowlers into tournaments,but there is no point shutting out the intermediate bowlers(the 180-200 average) who can't afford the cost of the super six events.
I wouldn't mind having a bowl but, with my league average being what it is means i would not have a very enjoyable day for personally.
Till next time
Tryhard

 

[Graham]

The year they got 110+ for the Brisbane Cup the outside 7 or 8 boards were dry. The following year the faithful locals came back, condition was much the same. You cannot blame this events history for its own downfall. The track record of the conditions laid down for tournaments need to be looked at as well.

The condition at this particular centre wasnt that great for the Koolfoam last year, and it's conditions before that tournament and since, no matter what anyone says, leave a little to be desired.

Like it or not, in the situation where the majority of us are weekend enthuisiasts and earn a living to pay for our bowling like everyone else, we don't want to spend $160 on a tournament on a difficult condition because it "builds character" and "makes you a better bowler". Granted - if it was a true tough condition and bad shots were punished well then fairs fair. But dry dry dry crappy conditions ?? Honestly ..

If a bowler has a choice of going fishing or to go about hurling their 15lb bowling balls at 30km+ per hour just to hit the right hand side of the headpin, I know what i'd rather be doing.

Maybe a way to entice some of the bowlers back is to put some oil down. I can almost guarantee that if the NSW GRand Prix laid down some of the rubbish that is served up as conditions for Qld Grand Prix tournaments then that tournament circuit would fail, much the same the Qld one has.

I am not out to attack any lane people from any centres, or the managers of any centres, so if you think I am doing that please get off your horse. What ive said really are just facts and something needs to happen. How that is going to happen i've got no idea - I dont own a magic wand - I think all I ask is if we are going to have tournaments in this state, let us have oil.

 

[Graham]

Heres an idea if you want to have half handicap, half scratch or whatever to try and entice bowlers back :

Run it like the VIC150 ladies tournament. Scratch bowlers bowl their qualifying, Hcap bowlers bowl their qualifying at the same time, top 16 (top 8 or whatever) from each division then team up : one scratch bowler one hcap bowler. I think in that tournament the first place scratch gets partnered with the 8th placed hcap bowler ? (is that how it works?)

I think oe of the problems is finding a partner (for the 200+ average bowlers) because more often than not these bowlers are bowling in Scratch leagues and dont bowl league with the 150 average bowlers. So instead of forcing the bowlers to partner themselves up BEFORE the tournament, do it for the finals.

Just an idea ....

 

[craig]

well i think its ridiculous. full stop

go back to how it was orinally when it was classed as a "MAJOR"

how many times now has the format changed, since i have been up here, i can recall at least 3 changes, when the major problem was the date it was on.

find a date where it would attract national entries, not just in queensland and run with it.

What is this really coming to, and we thought the no tap at greenslopes is as far as they would go.

 

[jimcross]

I agree with George about the format and averages and Trevor that it should never be a doubles event,and Graham about the lane conditions,and the others on a similar vein.
I bowled in the event a couple of times,but not last year.I got sick of firing rockets,just to try to keep the ball on the right side of the lane,and then going home and learning to bowl again.

AMF,don't downgrade the name of the Brisbane Cup---put it in mothballs for a year if necessary---then put down a reasonable condition next year and try to encourage the bowlers back. In the meantime,please call your doubles tournament something else.

 

[westie]

Slightly off track...

In Perth we had a little grand prix series. The numbers werent all that big, but plenty ppl turned up to most of them. Then they limit it to max 190 avg then the tournament folds never to be seen again

I wonder why.

Attracting league bowlers is fine and I think it's a good thing, but make sure you actually attract them or go out and get them otherwise you will have a flop on your hands.

The other point to note is that when you change a tournament format from open scratch to some other format to help lower bowlers you must change the name of the tournament, otherwise those bowlers you are trying to attract will still recall that the bowlers who bowl that tournament are really good and that they couldnt compete against them.

Read Frawls post under: Are all the major tournaments doomed? , to see what should be done to improve numbers.

 

[RobbieB]

I agree with George here, regarding the name and he points. As far as the tournamnt itself goes, we need affordable tournaments for the 160-180 average people as stepping stones toward scratch tournament bowling. Calling it the Brisbane Cup is an insult to the history of this event, though, and using this as a GP tournament to count towards the points is ridiculous.
As far as the numbers for the BC go, AMF killed it with that ridiculous points format they had the last couple of years.
Yes the condition at Mt Gravatt varys from horrible to impossible, and that s something that AMF Qld need to seriously look at if they want to get some decent number back to the tmt circuit. Having said that, don't write off the Western Open - Richlands usually puts out a playable and fair condition. It's just a pity they don't get Victor to do the shot for all the GP events.
Rob.

 

[craig]

well i think its ridiculous. full stop

go back to how it was orinally when it was classed as a "MAJOR"

how many times now has the format changed, since i have been up here, i can recall at least 3 changes, when the major problem was the date it was on.

find a date where it would attract national entries, not just in queensland and run with it.

What is this really coming to, and we thought the no tap at greenslopes is as far as they would go.

 

[jimcross]

I agree with George about the format and averages and Trevor that it should never be a doubles event,and Graham about the lane conditions,and the others on a similar vein.
I bowled in the event a couple of times,but not last year.I got sick of firing rockets,just to try to keep the ball on the right side of the lane,and then going home and learning to bowl again.

AMF,don't downgrade the name of the Brisbane Cup---put it in mothballs for a year if necessary---then put down a reasonable condition next year and try to encourage the bowlers back. In the meantime,please call your doubles tournament something else.