Ranking System - Tournament Bowlers

I use to prefer a rolling system (like tennis) but TBA changed it a few years due to popular demand, not like it made any difference whatsoever but it made the masses happy. There is no system in existance that makes everyone happy but the current is pretty good.

A rolling system is fine, if the tournaments are kept the same each and every year, much like Tennis or Golf or other similar sports where there is a set tournament schedule and with the exception of the odd new event here and there, there is pretty much the same tournament schedule to follow year in year out.

The reason why the rolling system never worked and gave a false impression, was chopping and changing of tournaments year to year, so you earn points for a tournament one year, but then the following year that tournament was scrapped, thereby losing all previous points earned. A replacement tournament was not always in the same state, thereby also meaning that bowlers might not also follow the new tournament.

They also decided to offer double and triple rankings points for events from normal points the previous years, then drop the double and triple points, which again leaves a hole in someones ability to earn points etc. Not to mention, you might be an extremely consistant player and finish say 3rd in all events during the previous year and possibly do enough to win the rankings, continue with similar form the following year, but not win, due to someone not competing in an event the previous year, thereby gaining a maximum points advantage over you. Of course it averages out the following year, but this does not always portray the correct impression of the most consistant or best player for each given year.

Because we will probably only ever have around 8 or so nationally ranked events, a rolling system cannot work in the same way that it does like Tennis where they have over 100 tournaments in any one year to choose from and most players follow a set schedule to maintain or achieve certain rankings. Their rankings hold a much greater importance because they generally do showcase who the best players in the sport are and that also translates into other incentives and sponsorship dollars. Something bowling really doesn't have.

And weighting a tournament on entries received probably would have held some merit in previous years where you had tournaments that were easier to win, ie Arafura, which still received full points and there were usually the lowest tournament entries out of all in the country. I believe most events receive a similar amount of entries now, with the obvious exception being the Masters with 150 original entries. So maybe due to the status of this event, the points level can be elevated, which would also lend to it being a compulsory event for rankings points.

IMO, I still like the option of having a core group of 'Major' national ranked events and then a group of 'Minor' national events to form a rankings calendar. Similar set up to the European Tour and the PBA. You win a major and you get more points, etc etc. But I believe this will potentially help competitive bowling in Australia for the future and those states that struggle to attract numbers to tournaments. Having different tournament level access points for the non regular tournament bowler to the regular tournament bowler, would I believe lead to increased competition and the willingness of bowlers to gain a better understanding of their game, not only through self development, but gauging their skill set against higher caliber players when they decide to make that next step up. Not only do they do this in the prominant bowling tours, but in other sports ie Tennis etc, where a lower level tennis player can play the grind of week in week out smaller tournaments to potentially earn more points and boost their rankings, whereas the more talented players like the Nadals will play the majors with a splattering of lower tournaments to keep their points going.
 
I guess the question we need to answer is "How do we fix or make better the ranking system that we have in place?"

Well here is a scenario which would happen currently. In a tournament with 100 bowlers, if I finished last I would get 0. In a tournament with 30 bowlers, if I finished last I would get 12. Not ideal but it's what we have...

IMO, If you finished last you get 0... whether there is 100 or 30...

The current system should have it's scale ratioed for amount of entries. If there are 100 entries, things stay the same... 30 entries, Top 5 points remain as is then from 6th to last the points from the 100 entry scale is divided by the ratio in this case 3 (round figures). If there are more than 100 entries then last still gets 0 and the percentage of points increases for the whole scale... i.e If there are 110 bowlers then first gets 110, second gets 88, third gets 72 etc etc.

Just an idea...

Agreed, winning a tourney with 100 entries should be weighted more than winning one with only 30 entries and losing should be the same for all events.

George, You only need to look at the people at our centre to know there are at least 2 and maybe more who could compete at that level but don't. There are others around at other centres as well. Why they don't bowl many ranked events is up to them but I hope you realise that time, travel costs, accommodation and so on all play their part. You also need to realise that much like yourself, they really don't care much about the points so they simply bowl the tourneys they want to bowl.
 
Well if they arent willing to bowl and test themselves against the current cream why do they deserve a ranking? On talent? pffftt Talent in my eyes is only judged when you compete against your competition and perform well, this is called earning it. I'm yet to see too many bowlers who are currently in the top 10 not deserve to be there.

Travel costs, accommodation, entries fee's.... yep last time I checked I dont have a free ride, I pay for everything myself (bar bowling balls). If these players are good, they'll finish high enough up the placings to cover their costs and make some profit. It's not easy, took me ages however you can get there if you work at it and invest your time and own money. Until then, they dont deserve any ranking.
 
Agreed, winning a tourney with 100 entries should be weighted more than winning one with only 30 entries and losing should be the same for all events.

George, You only need to look at the people at our centre to know there are at least 2 and maybe more who could compete at that level but don't. There are others around at other centres as well. Why they don't bowl many ranked events is up to them but I hope you realise that time, travel costs, accommodation and so on all play their part. You also need to realise that much like yourself, they really don't care much about the points so they simply bowl the tourneys they want to bowl.

You are making a bit of a rod for your own back here, in several posts you have stated that the system is not fair because not all of the countries best bowlers are vying for rankings points, which is a fair point, but you can't have it both ways. Bowlers have different motivations for competing in tournaments, and noone can question another bowlers commitment or desire if they have other restrictions, but you simply can't say the rankings don't work because not all the good bowlers are in it, because they aren't bowling the required tournaments. You are shifting this to a seperate issue of individual bowlers motivations and not focusing on your original statements in response to the topic, where you think the system isn't good.

There are plenty of guys who fall in and out of the tournament scene due to various reasons, but because they don't always bowl all the time is not a valid reason why the rankings system doesn't work.

The rankings system should be an indicator to those performing across the nominated and certified ranked events in any calendar year, there has to be some kind of yardstick or measurement and because some bowlers don't bowl all the tournaments, doesn't mean the rankings system is flawed. What is flawed is dwindling tournament numbers. A better utilization of resources and brain power would be to figure out how to increase tournament entry numbers and your reason for why the rankings is flawed will most likely fix itself, because no matter what version of rankings system is in use, if bowlers don't compete in events, then they can hardly be considered. You don't get part points for thinking of maybe bowling an event.

And relating tournament numbers to points earned has a nice theory to it, however it probably just adds to complicating calculations to come up with a fair system. And aside from the Arafura tournament, which thankfully is no longer a ranked event, most tournament numbers were fairly even. If I am not mistaken, there used to be at some stage aside from a tournament requiring to meet criteria to be nationally ranked, that points would also be reduced if a certain number of entries weren't received, which I think may have happened to Arafura once or twice. So maybe if mens entries fall below 60 and womens below 20, then the old 80% reduction could come into play??

Kegel Open - highest numbers for the guys so far this year outside of Masters, but this is due to the excellent work the tournament staff provide Men 96 / Women 32
Aust Open/Vic 150 - world cup qualifier, may have helped entries, but well supported by the women, guess due to a different format that allows for handicap Men 82 / Women 61
Arafura - the blight of rankings points systems for many years, especially when they had double points in place, Men 22 / Women 14
Masters - our showpiece event now and should receive the most entries, qualifying attempts Men 150 / Women 61
NSW Open - numbers slightly down, poor support by the women, but the tournament is also not long after our nationals, good to see a pay increase over expected figures for the guys Men 74 / Women 17
Aust Cup - who knows what the final numbers would be, but I think they are hoping for around 50 - 70 and is the final tournament of the year.

Melbourne Cup - which wasn't ranked, but will be next year received 66 and 20 in both categories, but the format more than made up for this in regards to prize money etc.

With these tournament numbers, you should also remember that a few of those tournaments were jammed together, and next years schedule should eliminate this. I would expect tournament numbers to be fairly even next year casting aside the odd tournament here and there that is generally deemed more popular, ie Kegel for obvious reasons.
 
Good grief man, give me something constructive to work with...

Let me try from a different angle, how would you make the rankings system work?

It does not matter how many different angles you come from, it still feels the same when you crash into the same thick brick wall! By my recollection, for a sport to be regarded as a sport by the Government (and qualify for government funding) a ranking system is required. It shows that there is a recognised participative sporting competition.

What that entails I'll leave up to more knowledgeable persons ... Sorry!
 
To throw another spanner: What would other think about a Champion of Champions type tournament at the end of a rankings year?

Surely if the powers to be can 'find' some extra dollars to 'support' the top 5-10 ranked bowlers at the end of the year to roll in and end of year event, similar to the PBA Tournament of Champions (or WSOB), it would get the viewers and maybe even coverage. Then as others see that there is a goal at the end of the year to work towards, it may boost numbers in all ranked events. Who wouldn't want to bowl in a prestigious tournament that you have to EARN entry into. Too many thoughts, trying to be written down in a small space, sorry!
 
To throw another spanner: What would other think about a Champion of Champions type tournament at the end of a rankings year?

Surely if the powers to be can 'find' some extra dollars to 'support' the top 5-10 ranked bowlers at the end of the year to roll in and end of year event, similar to the PBA Tournament of Champions (or WSOB), it would get the viewers and maybe even coverage. Then as others see that there is a goal at the end of the year to work towards, it may boost numbers in all ranked events. Who wouldn't want to bowl in a prestigious tournament that you have to EARN entry into. Too many thoughts, trying to be written down in a small space, sorry!

Not a bad idea, now we just need some rich benefactor to throw away free money and it is on! I think you could probably run with top 10 in each division, adult, juniors and seniors and make it a half decent event. Lots of other tours around the world have some kind of season defining tournament to finish partly as reward for being in the top category of bowlers on that tour/country.
 
Well if they arent willing to bowl and test themselves against the current cream why do they deserve a ranking? On talent? pffftt Talent in my eyes is only judged when you compete against your competition and perform well, this is called earning it. I'm yet to see too many bowlers who are currently in the top 10 not deserve to be there.

Travel costs, accommodation, entries fee's.... yep last time I checked I dont have a free ride, I pay for everything myself (bar bowling balls). If these players are good, they'll finish high enough up the placings to cover their costs and make some profit. It's not easy, took me ages however you can get there if you work at it and invest your time and own money. Until then, they dont deserve any ranking.

Not everything is about ego and not everyone feels the need to prove themselves to others. No-one has said the top 10 don't deserve to be there. What was said is they can get there simply by bowling more tourneys than others and that is a fact.

Whether you like it or not, not everyone is fortunate enough to bowl in many of the ranked tourneys. People bowl in the tourneys they want to bowl in. They don't bowl in them for rankings points.
 
Ok just so I get this right.

The ranking system is a joke because there are bowlers who chose not to bowl tournaments to allow the bowlers who bowl all the tournaments to finish above them?
 
[/QUOTE]Casual Observer, who are all these great bowlers you speak of? I certainly dont see them and if they are that good why dont they bowl as much as Mick or myself, surely they would make money out of bowling like me.[/QUOTE]

He's talking about himself I think George, nothing new in this country or anywhere else for that matter :)
 
Ok just so I get this right.

The ranking system is a joke because there are bowlers who chose not to bowl tournaments to allow the bowlers who bowl all the tournaments to finish above them?

More stupidity by someone who refuses to see reality. That is not what I said at all.
 
Perhaps if you idiots bothered to read posts and comprehend them we could have a sensible discussion for once. Get back on topic.

Whether or not you want to admit it there are bowlers who are more than capable of bowling that level who chose not to.
The ranking system allows people to bowl more events to move higher up the list.
The system does not differentiate between tourneys of different sizes.
Rankings points mean nothing to a lot of bowlers.

You can agree or disagree with those points but it doesn't really matter. They are facts. They are all issues that need to be addressed to improve the ranking system if it is to be meaningful.
 
I dont see why you need to call someone stupid just because they voiced their opinion....

I said the post was stupidity, very much like your own. I did not say the person who posted it was stupid.

Also, unlike you I stay on topic and actually post something whether people agree or not.
 
Perhaps if you idiots bothered to read posts and comprehend them we could have a sensible discussion for once. Get back on topic.

Whether or not you want to admit it there are bowlers who are more than capable of bowling that level who chose not to.
The ranking system allows people to bowl more events to move higher up the list.
The system does not differentiate between tourneys of different sizes.
Rankings points mean nothing to a lot of bowlers.

You can agree or disagree with those points but it doesn't really matter. They are facts. They are all issues that need to be addressed to improve the ranking system if it is to be meaningful.

Again with the name calling.....


The rankings system doesn't mean nothing. It shows what bowlers have performed consistently for the whole entire year and on all different patterns. If you want to be recognised as one of Australia's best you cant just bowl one tournament for the year, you have to show your committment towards the game and bowl most of the tournaments.
The likes of George, Belmo, AMP, Cara and Carol are Australia's best because they have put the time, effort and money to get where they are today.

The reward of winning the rankings isn't just $1000 every year, some years it means getting a spot in the Worlds Team , Commonwealth Champs Team or Asian Champs Team.
To me the rankings system does matter because it gives me an indication of how well I went for the year and how I can improve my game the following year
 
As his account name states, it's all he is, haven't seen him at any tournament before.

Sam, give me a meaningful reason/incentive to bowl in one and I will be there. Yours is yet another post made by someone that is completely off topic but wont be removed.

How about you look at the system, identify the faults in it and work on improving it.
 
Bec, how many more tourneys have you bowled than the people below 14th spot on the rankings? Do you really want to go down this path?

How about you go back and read my post a bit slower and then comment on what I actually wrote.
 
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