Its even tougher.
- Thread starter dockers
- Start date
Roysa
Well-Known Member
What's the point of this thread?
This place and bowlers in general amaze me. Half of the threads in here revolve around how much easier the game is these days due to ball technology etc. With respect many of these comments come from older bowlers who were around when these balls weren't and accuracy and consistency was king. With that said I would expect that when a condition played tough it would be met with an attitude of "oh we'll it's tough but we have to bowl better".
Looking at the scores it's tough for everyone. I presume the centre is equipped correctly to host the tournament and is also modern enough that it wouldn't play any different to 95% of the centres in Australia so there is no excuse there.
Why can't the game just be hard sometimes??
This place and bowlers in general amaze me. Half of the threads in here revolve around how much easier the game is these days due to ball technology etc. With respect many of these comments come from older bowlers who were around when these balls weren't and accuracy and consistency was king. With that said I would expect that when a condition played tough it would be met with an attitude of "oh we'll it's tough but we have to bowl better".
Looking at the scores it's tough for everyone. I presume the centre is equipped correctly to host the tournament and is also modern enough that it wouldn't play any different to 95% of the centres in Australia so there is no excuse there.
Why can't the game just be hard sometimes??
This is what happens when you have bowlers bowling on very easy conditions for years and then thrust a real tournament condition on them. Your game suffers but you don't know it, why do you think bowling is dying a sad death world wide. But really it doesn't matter because someone will win and be very happy.
strop
Elite Athlete
Hi Terry,
My question is, Is that what they really always wanted.... "thrust a real tournament condition on them".............Since joining the Seniors a few years back, most of them just want to get out there and enjoy themself.......they had there years of tournament conditions........thats what I've been led to believe!!
Nice one Dockers.........you remind me of me......always putting it out there............
My question is, Is that what they really always wanted.... "thrust a real tournament condition on them".............Since joining the Seniors a few years back, most of them just want to get out there and enjoy themself.......they had there years of tournament conditions........thats what I've been led to believe!!
Nice one Dockers.........you remind me of me......always putting it out there............
Drumo
Member
Damned if they do, damned if they don't... People complain when it's easy... People complain when it's hard... Maybe the problem isn't with the conditions or the centres it's with the bowlers. Either that or the complaints are merely rhetoric and in reality the majority WANT the easy conditions and when they face something difficult their ego is dented... Easier to blame the lanes and the conditions then take a look at their own deficiencies...
No I don't, not at all. I think the scores need to have an element of challenge but to put down basically pro conditions is crazy for seniors, they don't even do that at the Senior Pro events and the worlds will suffer if they do there because Seniors are smart people who aren't to feed their own ego's.
My thoughts are 6:1 patterns for the 50's and 9:1 patterns for the Grand's. But people need to realise if they bowl on 3:1 patterns they will struggle because they are tough. If the long pattern is put down in Canberra, so I have been told, it will be virtually un-bowlable.
On another note I have just read the biggest growth in golf is senior events, more than 100 events have started up in recent years in Australia, but there is basically no prize money and in golf you pay extra to play on tough courses because it's the challenge. I am hoping to play in one next year when I get to Melbourne, it's a three day event in the Grampion region the week before the Senior AO, really looking forward to it.
My thoughts are 6:1 patterns for the 50's and 9:1 patterns for the Grand's. But people need to realise if they bowl on 3:1 patterns they will struggle because they are tough. If the long pattern is put down in Canberra, so I have been told, it will be virtually un-bowlable.
On another note I have just read the biggest growth in golf is senior events, more than 100 events have started up in recent years in Australia, but there is basically no prize money and in golf you pay extra to play on tough courses because it's the challenge. I am hoping to play in one next year when I get to Melbourne, it's a three day event in the Grampion region the week before the Senior AO, really looking forward to it.
RobbieB
Rodentus scientificus
Shorter sports patterns are difficult, especially for seniors who generally don't have as much ball speed as they used to. Unfortunately on patterns like this equipment selection, layout and surface become incredibly important keys to keeping the ball in play, and to be honest a lot of the seniors in my experience are pretty clueless about these facets of the modern game. Using what works on a medium length house shot on short sports patterns is not only going to be extremely frustrating for those bowlers but will destroy the shot for the guys playing it correctly as well.
Be nice if the entry form included some info on playing the pattern or links to ball recommendations and such, like this:
http://www.bowl.com/news/newsdetails.aspx?id=12884902164
The Shannon O'Keefe clip is gold. "This pattern is impossible..." lol.
Be nice if the entry form included some info on playing the pattern or links to ball recommendations and such, like this:
http://www.bowl.com/news/newsdetails.aspx?id=12884902164
The Shannon O'Keefe clip is gold. "This pattern is impossible..." lol.
If the seniors want to bowl for just the fun of it, then remove the rankings points and national team selection from the tournaments.
As Robbie has stated, equipment selection is extremely important. As much as the oldies don't want to admit it, this a weakness in most bowlers. However there are plenty of people to ask to get help with understanding what is required. Obviously the lanes were playing difficult at Keon Park, however i watched Glen Loader average 280 for 5 games on those lanes at last years Australian Open, proving that carry at the centre is fantastic. How many bowlers went prepared to play the ball off 3 board at the break point?
Terry, I get my first look at the pattern for the Canberra event today in a practice session. Interesting times!
As Robbie has stated, equipment selection is extremely important. As much as the oldies don't want to admit it, this a weakness in most bowlers. However there are plenty of people to ask to get help with understanding what is required. Obviously the lanes were playing difficult at Keon Park, however i watched Glen Loader average 280 for 5 games on those lanes at last years Australian Open, proving that carry at the centre is fantastic. How many bowlers went prepared to play the ball off 3 board at the break point?
Terry, I get my first look at the pattern for the Canberra event today in a practice session. Interesting times!
jimcross
Active Member
Robbie B said:- Unfortunately on patterns like this, equipment selection, layout and surface become incredibly important keys to keeping the ball in play, and to be honest a lot of the seniors in my experience are pretty clueless about these facets of the modern game.
How true - How true. I confess, you've just described me perfectly.
How true - How true. I confess, you've just described me perfectly.
That is partly true however I see most seniors with at least 6 bowling balls, Probably all drilled for a house pattern which is dumb
because 1 or 2 would be plenty
They still live in the old NBS "new ball syndrome", must have a new ball to bowl any good or improve........
Seniors can still learn, 98% of them don't want to, they want to ave 220+ when in reality they should be averaging 180
I Still maintain that in all of Aust there are very , very few 220 + average bowlers
Sad but true
strop
Elite Athlete
Who said anything about having fun, I just said MOST of them just want to enjoy themselves............it is amazing how words get twisted.............
I take it theres nothing exciting to comment on in the Adult section, so you are on here to share the wealth of knowledge.........and lecture the older inexperience about ball selection and lane patterns..........
Terry (not included in that group), you and a few including myself dont care most of the time what patterns are thrown at us, but there are those that just want to bowl and they walk out feeling much better throwing a 200 ave than walking out shooting a 170 ave.
Remove the ranking and national team selection...........well why ?.......ranking side make no difference be cause you all bowl on the same condition, whether its hard or easy.....as as for national selection, we all know there was probably a better way of doing it.............cause we all know the adult way has been so perfect over the 40 years I have seen..........
Without all the bull**** that goes on these days and the delcine in adult numbers since the 80's, I would still rather have 100 bowlers wanting to bowl on a easier condition than only 50 bowlers turn up on a tougher pattern.
Geoff I think the majority of bowlers in this country go out and get new gear to give them the edge please don't make it sound like the senior bowlers are the leaders in that field! it's true these bowlers travel to these tournaments to compete and have a good time and socialize but don't forget these guys paved the way for tournaments in this country many years ago and when they were the best in australia they didn't see all the changes that have come around in recent years , as long as not too many ball returns don't get kicked off there mounting bolts or too many balls get thrown at things or too many walkoffs i will be happy
PS the bit about walkoffs wasn't pointed at any one in particular
PS the bit about walkoffs wasn't pointed at any one in particular
Michael Little
Active Member
Valid points Tony, I think I have alluded to something similar but in regards to juniors and the type of patterns they are playing on in some tournaments.
I guess the guys that bowl Seniors can look at it a few ways, never going to please every body, but personally, I would envisage easier conditions than general open adult tournaments should be the norm as things need to be taken into account.
These things include age (not being ageist), knowledge and ability.
Age comes down to those guys and girls getting on in years, who have spent years in the bowling game, when it comes to shorter patterns, or any pattern where speed makes a difference, why submit them to something like that. Knowledge, some people just like to bowl and not worry about the science, its fair enough, and ability, most of the guys that are leading the rankings have been doing it for years before and will probably do it for years to come, however, spare a thought for those guys that used to be in and around the bubble at tournaments on tougher conditions, they are now eligible for playing seniors on what they perceive to be slightly easier conditions, do you think that would influence their decision to enter? I reckon so.
It is almost the same as what I feel should be done for juniors, sure have the tougher sport patterns, but only to a degree. In my opinion, especially for juniors, there is no point dumping them into a tough as hell pattern (last years nationals come to mind) as most don't have the knowledge, training or experience to deal with it (same 3 reasons above). My belief is that if you want to look at the laying different patterns to see who can bowl and be successful bowling different areas of lane, by all means lay conditions that dictate a type of shot should be played, but back off the severity until they become accustomed and experience in it.
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