Going over the Foul line & Not Fouling ???

Teek

Oldie
I alway's thought that if you went over the foul line , that it WAS a foul .
But it seems that if you Don't let go of the ball it's NOT a Foul .

i was reading about Mike Machuga & his " Flop " ( a dive down the lane holding onto his ball to celebrate his win ) after winning his first P.B.A. title , on the PBA website .

what is the " Rule " ???
 

androooo

hmmmmm......
Staff member
as long as you don't release the ball ie: drop it, bowl it, throw it overarm... it's not a foul
 
Teek said:
I alway's thought that if you went over the foul line , that it WAS a foul .
But it seems that if you Don't let go of the ball it's NOT a Foul .
i was reading about Mike Machuga & his " Flop " ( a dive down the lane holding onto his ball to celebrate his win ) after winning his first P.B.A. title , on the PBA website .
what is the " Rule " ???
As per TBA rule book
RULE 121 FOUL - APPEAL
No appeal will be allowed when a foul is indicated by an approved automatic foul detecting device or is called by a foul
judge except when it is proved that the device is not operating properly or there is a preponderance of evidence that the
bowler did not foul.
If the device becomes temporarily inoperative the following procedures will be used in calling fouls:
1. In tournament play tournament management will assign a human foul judge or arrange for the official scorers to
call fouls.
2. In league play, the opposing captains will call fouls or designate someone to act as a foul judge.
Failure to have the automatic foul detecting device in operation or provide for foul line observance when it is
inoperative will disqualify scores bowled for TBA high score consideration.
EXPLANATION
1. This diagram shows a foul being committed because the bowler’s foot is touching the lane in the foul area
beyond the foul line.
2. In effect, the foul line extends in an unbroken line across the building, including aisles and up the wall.
Therefore, the bowlers in the diagram who have stepped into the aisle or touched the wall beyond the foul line
have committed fouls.
3. This bowler’s right foot has crossed the foul line on an adjacent lane causing the foul light to register on that
lane. A foul must be called even though the light did not indicate a foul on the lane on which she is bowling.
4. This bowler has fouled because her hand is resting on the lane beyond the foul line. This foul must be called
and recorded by the scorekeeper or the team captain even though the automatic foul detecting device has not
registered the foul.
5. When foreign objects such as cigarettes, cigars, pencils, etc, drop from a bowler’s pocket on or across the foul
line and no part of the bowler’s person touches on or across the foul line, no foul is committed.
6. Everything on the approach side of the foul line is “fair territory” for the bowler. He may prevent a foul by
holding onto posts, ball returns or the wall on his side of the foul line.
7. A foul is not committed when the bowler enters the foul area but retains possession of the ball. The bowler
should not be charged with a foul because he has not executed a legal delivery.
8. A ball is legally delivered when it leaves the bowler’s possession and crosses the foul line into playing territory.
The diagram clearly illustrates the “foul area” and “fair territory”.
A bowler is subject to the foul rule after every legal delivery and until he or another player is in a position to make a
succeeding delivery. The player will be charged with a foul whether the ball is in the pit or on the way back to the rack
if he enters the foul area before he or another bowler is in a position to bowl again. The ball is considered in play until
that time.
 

Feral

Member
Question:

A bowler approaches the foul line; delivers ball; ball sticks at thumb and it ends up on the adjoining lane and rolls down that lane. Is that a foul?

Feral
 
D

domesticengineer

With respect to Teek's question, Nighteyes300 covers it all. See his items 7 & 8. (a) Item 8 says the ball must be delivered, i.e. leave the bowler's hand. In item 7 it says there is no foul because the bowler has not executed a delivery. In fact, the bowler has commited a balk, which does not exact a penalty. With ref. to Feral;'s question, there is no foul but the resulting score counts as much as a foul, that is, the score is zero for that delivery.
 

Mrs P

Beware the sleeping Tiger
Question:

Bowler ready to bowl 1st ball...into back-swing drops the ball behind him,
then turns slider foot BUT foot goes over the foul line setting off foul light...

Is this a foul ..many say No but his foot broke the foul line buzzer and I say YES.

Opposition lost by a few pins (not me) and these were the pins from the so call foul.

What is the legal answer...I have read the Rule book over and over..
Thank you in advance for replies
 

Chucky

Member
domestic tiger and feral.. i would say that there is a rebowl of that shot and nothing is recorded from ball going down wrong lane.. i say this because if some one accidentally bowls on the wrong lane the shot is not recorded as a foul or a zero... they reset those pins and bowl again on the correct lane..

Feral in your situation its a bowl again and nothing counted..
 

Jase

Admin
Staff member
Feral said:
Question:
A bowler approaches the foul line; delivers ball; ball sticks at thumb and it ends up on the adjoining lane and rolls down that lane. Is that a foul?
Feral
In this case i would say no foul.

But if that happened and that person crossed over there own foul line then i would say yes i think it is a foul.

Who knows? I recon everyone should stick to there own lanes. :D
 

bad_ass

Troy Millar
Just wondering i know ur foot has to be touching the foul line to make the buzzer gooff but wat about when someone release's the ball and they think it's bad or good couldnt tell an they swing there leg around and it goe's over the foul line but not touching the ground .
 

GeorgeF

Hypercell = Hyperhook!
Hey Ferel,

did you strike when you lofted it to the other lane 'hyperthetically' of course? :D
 

tonx

New Member
Jase said:
In this case i would say no foul.
But if that happened and that person crossed over there own foul line then i would say yes i think it is a foul.
Who knows? I recon everyone should stick to there own lanes. :D

Your foul line extends wall to wall. If you foul on another lane, its regarded as fouling on your own lane.
 

Chucky

Member
oh and icequeen read rule7 and 8..
7. A foul is not committed when the bowler enters the foul area but retains possession of the ball. The bowler
should not be charged with a foul because he has not executed a legal delivery.
8. A ball is legally delivered when it leaves the bowler’s possession and crosses the foul line into playing territory.

the ball has not crossed the line into playing territory there for not a legal delivery and there fore not a foul.

So the scores should have counted...
 
Feral said:
Question:
A bowler approaches the foul line; delivers ball; ball sticks at thumb and it ends up on the adjoining lane and rolls down that lane. Is that a foul?
Feral
Dead Ball, re bowl on correct lane
 
Chucky said:
oh and icequeen read rule7 and 8..
7. A foul is not committed when the bowler enters the foul area but retains possession of the ball. The bowler
should not be charged with a foul because he has not executed a legal delivery.
8. A ball is legally delivered when it leaves the bowler’s possession and crosses the foul line into playing territory.
the ball has not crossed the line into playing territory there for not a legal delivery and there fore not a foul.
So the scores should have counted...

Tattaly agree, ball has notentered the playing area, (i.e. The lane).
 

double_d

Member
bad_ass said:
Just wondering i know ur foot has to be touching the foul line to make the buzzer gooff but wat about when someone release's the ball and they think it's bad or good couldnt tell an they swing there leg around and it goe's over the foul line but not touching the ground .
pretty sure this is not a foul
but
if your on far lanes and over balance and touch wall past foul line this is a foul
if you dont like your gutter ball and kick foul line like i used to as a junior so the F looked better then the - this is a foul and the whole frame is a zero
and i quick stopped that when i read that rule
dan
 
bad_ass said:
Just wondering i know ur foot has to be touching the foul line to make the buzzer gooff but wat about when someone release's the ball and they think it's bad or good couldnt tell an they swing there leg around and it goe's over the foul line but not touching the ground .

Is it a foul when your follow through goes past the foul line but doesn't set off the buzzer??? I didn't think so
 

Feral

Member
Jase said:
I recon everyone should stick to there own lanes. :D
Me TOO Jase. :)

Quote George "Hey Ferel,

did you strike when you lofted it to the other lane 'hyperthetically' of course?"


Georgie Georgie - I always strike, no matter where it lands. You should know that (and I'm a brookie specialist so watch out) :cool: Never done that yet but I'm looking for some coaching so maybe you can show me how it's done;)

My question arose simply because a champion lady bowler (no naming as she is a great bowler and finished near the top) did this during the K & K. I wasn't sure whether she was docked pins or whatever. She didn't foul on her lane nor the lane next door. But she DID release the pill which, in my opinion, was not a fair delivery and as Nighteyes300 says was a dead ball. I'd agree with that but do the rules specifically cover this unfortunate situation?

Feral
 

Jase

Admin
Staff member
Feral,
I actually think she crossed over the foul line and onto her lane, we made sure she checked her shoe before bowling again incase she had oil on it. Mind you it was very late maybe i didn’t see it properly.
 

alexnjudy

TotalBowler
I think it will be nice to hear the final words from the "WISE MAN" from TBA, Peter Coburg regarding this rule :D
Cheers
Alex
 

RobbieB

Rodentus scientificus
My interpretation:

The ball was delivered on the correct lane, so it was not a dead ball. If the bowler crossed the foul line, it's a foul, if not it's just a zero.

In icequeens case, there was no legal delivery, as the ball did not enter playing territory, so it's not a foul.

There are some situations which can be called as dead balls or fouls depending on the order of events. For instance, if a bowler bowls at an incomplete set (5 pin or whatever missing) and fouls, the dead ball call takes precedence as the bad rack happens before the foul. If the bowler fouls, and the ball hits say deadwood or a stray lifter on the way down, the foul stands even though it would normally be called as a dead ball.

Cheers, Robbie.
 
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