What is AMF doing to the game?

[l marsden]

Bowlers at Kedron and Cannon Hill have been told that the centers will be closing in June. We hear that several other Brisbane centers may not have their leases renewed next year. Meanwhile AMF have started changing some of their centers over to string machine operation with Castle Hill being the first and North Strathfield to follow next month. They are also building a 20 lane facility in a shopping center not far from Kedron which will have string machines.
What are your thoughts as to the direction that AMF appears to be taking with regards to the "sport" of bowling in Oz?

 

[GBS]

Great comment.

The answer is simple .... it will divide those in the game again. Those that embrace what looks like an arcade game and those who value tradition. Mechanics, no mechanics, cheaper, there is much going on. Who is going to get into the machine and rotate the 1,2 and 3 pin each week or two to allow for even wear of the pins because the machine only has 10 pins not 20? They say the process is easy, probably is, now somebody get in there and do it as often as other they do other process in a bowling centre.

The 7 pin can't get to the 10 pin, no more spares here. Can the 4 pin get to the 10 pin with string length? Can the the 6 pin get to the 7 pin? There is an answer .. you won't like it.

Does a string hitting a pin count as a pin down .. you won't like that answer either.

Averages will go up, camparing averages in traditional and string centres will be impossible.

Will the IOC like a new innovation .. der NO, they dont like our scoring system and we have seen where that ended up. A divided community again.

Have you seen the 30ft approach model? Have you seen the VR model where you can bowl against the pros on ... wow WTBA patterns.

This is about profit not about sport.

 

[l marsden]

I was talking to an AMF fac. manager the other day and he told me of the fact that they want the pins rotated weekly. I told him that to do 20 lanes would take approx. 20 hrs depending on your skill level. Also the suppliers QubicaAMF don't actually advise operators to rotate pins whereas Brunswick do in their manual. Regarding the 4 and 6 pins, the QAMF machine restricts the amount of string that can be "played" out. On the ball exit side they restrict the length to stop the pins going into the ball exit area. i.e. shorter strings for the 6,9,10 pins on the odd lane and 4,7,8 on even lane.

 

[Alberto]

Looks like it's going backwards not forwards.
Will be interesting to see if TBA will sanction leagues in these centers.Not sure how if it's impossible to make some of your spares?

 

[GBS]

And I think if the strings get to tangled up, the pins are able to go up and down ten or so times to de-tangle itself. If no success then the machine stops and the technician is called to de-tangle. Cant wait to see the pins going up and down.

 

[Brenton_Davy]

I actually think this is a major opportunity for independent proprietors to strengthen their league bases. Traditionally independent centres place a greater priority on league play and many disgruntled AMF league bowlers are migrating towards the independents. It comes down to these proprietors promoting their leagues and making their league experience a superior prkduct. Simple things like having staff that are enthusiastic, friendly and reme bers customers names. Clean centres, reliable machines and decent food also go a long wY towards keepnig, and gaining, league players.

If AMF wish to pursue the social market, the independent proprietors have a major opportunity. It is up to them to make the best use of it.

 

[jason_doust]

Sad as it seems, I can understand Kedron and Cannon Hill closing. The land they sit on is worth too much and the bean counters at the oxymoronically named Ardent Leisure can see instant bonuses from improving the bottom line. Blame low interest rates and hyper-inflated land prices for that one, like the last two real estate cycles knocking the old and new Parramatta bowls out of existence. Anyone watching the march of high rise units toward Belconnen Bowl can see the writing on the wall for that one too. Vacant land around Tuggeranong Town Centre isn't exactly readily available either and the bowl is right next to the bus interchange, so expect an approach there in the next 5 years.

Frankly, the string machine concept is breathtakingly ignorant, insulting toward almost every aspect of the game beyond social play. And way more so if USBC and/or TBA grant approval to these amusement machines. It's being heavily peddled to understandably disbelieving proprietors by the proponents and will prove to be another round in AMF making themselves a lesson in "how not to; via killing your subscription business model" for future MBA students.

 

[l marsden]

AMF lease the majority of their centres. In Brisbane all the centres which they operate are leasehold. It is believed that Cannon Hill will not continue as a bowling centre and a third party is negotiating with the owner of Kedron to purchase it and continue bowling operations. Richlands and Redcliffe come off lease next year leaving Capalaba and Mt.Gravatt. AMF plans new centres around the country so we will probably see another relocation of centres like we did when they moved Fairfield and Blacktown.

 

[GeorgeF]

Great comment.

The answer is simple .... it will divide those in the game again. Those that embrace what looks like an arcade game and those who value tradition. Mechanics, no mechanics, cheaper, there is much going on. Who is going to get into the machine and rotate the 1,2 and 3 pin each week or two to allow for even wear of the pins because the machine only has 10 pins not 20? They say the process is easy, probably is, now somebody get in there and do it as often as other they do other process in a bowling centre.

The 7 pin can't get to the 10 pin, no more spares here. Can the 4 pin get to the 10 pin with string length? Can the the 6 pin get to the 7 pin? There is an answer .. you won't like it.

Does a string hitting a pin count as a pin down .. you won't like that answer either.

Averages will go up, camparing averages in traditional and string centres will be impossible.

Will the IOC like a new innovation .. der NO, they dont like our scoring system and we have seen where that ended up. A divided community again.

Have you seen the 30ft approach model? Have you seen the VR model where you can bowl against the pros on ... wow WTBA patterns.

This is about profit not about sport.

For the record and after doing some testing (you can check out a video review I did on my facebook page in Oct 2016) you can infact spare the 7-10 and other multi combo splits, you can even throw messengers. The strings are considerably longer than you think.

 

[Nighteyes300]

For the record and after doing some testing (you can check out a video review I did on my facebook page in Oct 2016) you can infact spare the 7-10 and other multi combo splits, you can even throw messengers. The strings are considerably longer than you think.

How will they cope with extreme power? will they twist?

 

[AJD]

Is this like comparing backyard tennis (not to take it to extremes) with totem tennis?

 

[austech]

my understanding is string pin has been approved for league but not tournaments . and I think more venues will convert for several reasons . they are cheaper to run less moving parts , use less power , easier to maintain , safer far less chance of a technician being hurt or killed . I have been working in bowling for 31 years and was at first against it . but I am coming around after looking at them more . as for string pins changing the game we have already had reactive balls and lane patterns that have changed the game way more than string machines ever will . I have seen a lot of bowling on string pins and the pin action is the same I doubt averages will increase at all , just looks wrong with a string attached but then again it took me 2 years to get used to the sound of synthetic lanes after our wood lanes got replaced . just roll with the times as they are a changing . cheers paul

 

[matthew]

AMF lease the majority of their centres. In Brisbane all the centres which they operate are leasehold. It is believed that Cannon Hill will not continue as a bowling centre and a third party is negotiating with the owner of Kedron to purchase it and continue bowling operations. Richlands and Redcliffe come off lease next year leaving Capalaba and Mt.Gravatt. AMF plans new centres around the country so we will probably see another relocation of centres like we did when they moved Fairfield and Blacktown.

oh fairfield is still in the location when its was under AMF and blacktown is now on top of the shopping at blacktown.

 

[Kegelmaster]

I just received the news that string setters will be allowed as of January 2018. Apparently, a new category will be established for records etc, but the order of play will be the same. I have seen all of the many negative comments and realise that most of them are ill informed. The strings on all of the pins are exactly the same and if the pinsetter is correctly installed, each pin can reach the very end if the ball pit; even the front pin!
I hear of many comp players that the strings restrict the pin fall, while others tell me they believe that the attached strings can knock other pins down. Both is correct, however does only occur very seldom. The other issue that I see mentioned, are the tangling of the pins. Trust me, if a good quality pinsetter is installed, the machine itself will untangle the pins all by itself. We played on a pair if string pin lanes the other day and in 3 hours of constant play, had one single tangle were I actually had to go down and untangle three pins, which took seconds to do.
Naturally, for a center to install string setters is for reason of money. And why not? Ever thought why so many Tenpin bowling centers are going to the wall? A very large floor space is required and more than half of this space is only there to roll a ball across. This days, the cost of leased floor space is prohibitive and on top of this become the ever rising cost of power, not to mention the cost of labour for mechanics.
String setters have about a quarter of the power consumption as free fall and most of all does not need an in-house mechanic.
OK, I have to declare my interest in the string setters. I was the first person that brought a pair of string setters into the country in 2004 and in the 13 years since then, we have had not a single breakdown; the machines never stopped!
I am sure that I will get a few comments to this.

 

[AJD]

Can you get a decent messenger with strings? As an example, I am thinking of a 5 pin sent left to bounce off the wall and get the 10 pin - but I often get weirder combinations.

Although I think the call that an in-house mechanic is not required needs some justification - no system is perfect. In addition, the very large floor space "only there to roll a ball across" will still be required unless you are thinking of half-length lanes.

I am not a purist, but if the supporting mechanics (i.e. the strings) can effect the fall of pins (as Kegelmaster has admitted) then this is a totally different game. Just imagine if we had Sheffield Shield cricket with the ball on elastic because we could not afford fielders any more?

 

[Kegelmaster]

Hi AJD, there is very little difference in the pinfall or pin action. The strings are very lose and do not restrict the flying pin. If any pin hits the kickback, it bounces back just like any unattached pin. Like I said before, I don't think you could measure the restriction that the string poses; if it would, you would have a very minimal lower pinfall. However on the opposite side, I have seen on a few occasions that the string pulls a standing pin over, which would give you a larger pinfall. The only way we would ever find out exactly, someone would have to put a free fall pinsetter next to a string type and get the same players play on both lanes. As far as I know, to date nobody has done this anywhere.

I can very easily justify my call that a mechanic is not required for string setters. There is nothing that can go wrong mechanically as long as the operator swaps the pins around on a maybe monthly interval (takes about 1 minute per pin) and adjusts the length of the string, which takes about 1 minute per pinsetter. The important part is that you don't need a qualified person to do this, any staff member can do this task once shown.

Your example of cricket is a bit silly; the pins are not on a rubber band. But what about the change in cricket? We have now limited overs and Twenty/20! Remember how the purists howled? And now, very few watch a full test this days.

What the TBA tries to do now has been started a few years ago in Europe. String setters are not allowed in championships or larger competitions, however they are getting more and more prevalent for smaller, struggling centers that would be out of business by now.

 

[Thorpey]

TBA released this on the 13th July in regards to their Position on String Pins. http://www.tenpin.org.au/index.php?id=760&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=1925&cHash=d4ffad647a


Tenpin Bowling Australia will establish a separate category within its rules to approve the use of string pin machines in TBA registered centres commencing 1st January 2018.
After receiving a request from the industry seeking a ruling on the use of string pins in registered centres, TBA sought the advice of the United States Bowling Congress (USBC) and World Bowling (WB) due to the highly technical nature of the matter.

To date neither USBC or WB has made a ruling on string pins and therefore TBA, in consultation with key industry representatives, has made the following determinations -

- TBA will allow string pin centres to be registered - however they will be recognised in a separate category with a rule book to be established for string pin centres.

- TBA reserves the right to review the approval of string pin centres moving forward should USBC/World Bowling deem these machines and pins to be non-compliant.

- TBA registered string pin centres must adhere to both the technical requirements of the sport and other registered centre requirements - particularly sports registration. TBA’s technical committee will develop a set of recommendations for any specification changes that are required (if any) for any pin deck measurements or the like that form part of the lane certification process.

- Bowlers in registered string pin centres will have access to the same membership benefits as other TBA members. This includes the entitlement to awards, however all achievements will be recognised in a separate category.

- Bowlers with only a string pin average that enter tournaments in traditional venues where an average is required must provide an entering average obtained from participating in a traditional registered bowling centre.
An average obtained in a string pin venue cannot be used as the bowlers entering average.

TBA CEO Cara Honeychurch said "the introduction of string pins is the latest innovation to impact the sport. Reactive balls, synthetic lanes and the evolution of lane conditioning machines have all had significant impacts on the sport over the past 20 years," Honeychurch said.

"This is one of those divisive subjects that many bowlers and people within the industry have an opinion on and I’m sure this will generate plenty of discussion."

"We will continue to work closely with the World governing bodies of the sport to ensure that a thorough technical analysis and a definite decision on the place of string pins in our sport is undertaken."

 

[AJD]

[...] if it would, you would have a very minimal lower pinfall. However on the opposite side, I have seen on a few occasions that the string pulls a standing pin over, which would give you a larger pinfall. [...]

You are reinforcing my point that there is a difference - albeit slight. TBA's approach for putting these in a different category (Thorpey's post) addresses this.

[..] There is nothing that can go wrong mechanically as long as [...]

In other words, it is still a mechanical system that can develop faults. I don't know how the ball return works in the string system either. Two common issues I see - balls not being returned and pins needing to be reset for the second ball of a frame. In the centres I bowl at, it is the on-duty tech that performs these duties. Your suggestion that the front-of-house staff can do it has some practical risks. e.g. a Wednesday night with three leagues and two school groups - when is the front of house staff going to get a chance to run to the back and address these common faults. Of course, you might suggest that these would never ever happen again with string setters?

Your example of cricket is a bit silly; the pins are not on a rubber band. But what about the change in cricket? We have now limited overs and Twenty/20! Remember how the purists howled? And now, very few watch a full test this days.

A bad analogy, perhaps a little fanciful but not silly. The changes you have noted are game-level changes (e.g. what if we suddenly had 8 frame games or some suggested a skins-style competition or even if someone suggested a new scoring system where 9 pins equates to a strike [what a novel idea, I should patent this and call it 9-no-tap])

Perhaps a better analogy would be if the stumps in cricket were attached in the ground with springs and the bails tied on with string. In this analogy, a strong gust of wind (rare) might push the stumps far enough so the bails fall off. Or perhaps the string holding the bails on creates a little more resistance and what may have been out in a normal game is suddenly safe.

 

[Kegelmaster]

Hi HJD, Thanks for your feedback. Look, I did not mean anything bad when I said the comparison was silly. You really have to see and experience this system to fully understand it.

Firstly, yes it is still mechanically. The pins are pulled up with a small motor into the locators and then the motor reverses to set the pins back onto the deck. Once the pins are re-spotted, the motor continues to run further to slacken off the ropes. However they don't just hang down, they are placed into a tray from were they lift off with the hit of the pin. There is enough slack of rope not to interfere with the action of the pin.

The electronics control all of the different scenarios that are required for the scoring. We have developed our own software and this recognises if it is a strike, a spare and also correctly acts for the tenth frame. We can also easily incorporate 9-no-tap if required. I used to be popular in the eighties!!!

I am serious when I claim that there is no special staff needed that has to perform any difficult task. The worst thing that could happen would be that ropes tangle and it is that badly tangled that the pinsetter can not untangle it. Then someone has to go down and switch the pinsetter off and untangle this. However I have never seen a knot or something similar what could be difficult. This might happen once in a few hundred cycles. I can explain this in more details if you like at a later stage.

The ball return is very simple; the ball rolls from the ball pit towards the ball return, which is in the middle between two lanes. As the pins are pulled away by the strings, they do not interfere with the balls rolling. Once the ball gets in between the two adjoining kick-backs, it rolls about 60cm forward and gets picked up by an elevator that lifts the ball up to about 1.30m and drops it onto the ball return track. Gravity returns it then back to the ball collector, in our preferred case above ground or we can also do it below, just like the current system. Very simple.

Earlier this year, I installed 2 lanes in a private home in Sydney. Have a look at the YouTube video that I made:

If you have trouble viewing it, look at: Kegel Sport Home Tenpin Demo

 

[Kegelmaster]

We have just made a video featuring our string pinsetters:

Please check it out and it will show you exactly how it works and how simple and uncomplicated the machine is.
I am not saying that all centers should change over to this system, but if the venue is struggling to keep afloat, they should consider the change over. I converted the Noosa Tenpin center from the old Brunswick machines over to strings and the owner has not looked back. He told us that he repaid his outlay within 18 months. It was a matter of trying this changeover or closing the center down.
I fully understand that the purists will rebel against this direction, however they have to understand that the operator of the venue is there to make money, otherwise why do it? In the last 18 month's or so, the cost of power has increased considerably, good mechanics are nearly impossible to get and the machines getting older and breakdowns more frequent. The other important issue in the near future will be the requirements of safety cages around free-fall pinsetters.