Old vs New Oil/Cleaning machines

[sampson1791]

Again a question from the ignorant!

Can the cleaning/oil machines that need people to move them from lane to lane lay the PBA oil patterns like the flash Kegel Machines?

I ask as I would like to get my local centre to lay a PBA pattern & have a go.

Geez given we've got a whole 12 lanes I might just get them to lay all 5 of the PBA patterns and bowl on each over a weekend!!

 

[Phluff]

A 2 part answer for you:

Can older machines lay current patterns?
Older wicking machines such as Century, Silver bulliet, Magnum, Express and Phoenix machines along with new models such as the Kegal Crossfire which are going into alot of centres these days are unable to put down the same pattern as Fluid-Metered machines such as the Kegal Ions, Kustodians, Lane Walkers and Brunswick A-22s.
They can get close, but because of the way the machines draw the oil and put it on the lanes, it can be a bit hit & miss. The best you can hope for if you want to practice on challenging conditions is to see if they can run a 3:1 or lower ratio sports pattern for you. Patterns can be found here Pad Machine Patterns

I want to practice on the PBA patterns
Regardless of which machines you are using, unless you know somebody who has copies of the older PBA patterns before March this year, you can only get them by having a password for the PBA Experiance section of Bowl.com. They put the patterns in a secured section earlier this year when they updated the A-22 patterns.


It's going to be hard for you as there aren't exactly alot of choices in your area! From what I am aware of, Narre Warren would be your closest centre with a fluid-metered machine.

 

[AdrianS]

You have to do multiple runs with old machines to get any sort of volume of oil on a lane(like our century) But if you know where to put the shims to change the pattern and what length to do a 2nd run too you can lay some interesting shots down, anything from boing it off the ditch to dont get it outside of 10 at the breakpoint.

 

[sampson1791]

Luke
Great link and thank you very much!!!
and
thank you Adrian

Now I will see what will happen at my end when I ask them to change the pattern.

 

[Brenton_Davy]

Your tech will more than likely have a seizure.

One other thing, with a pad machine, the "old" pattern will take a while to bleed out of the wick and buffer roller. Probably at least one full conditioing cycle for the entire centre. It really is a pain in the **s to do it with a wick machine without disrupting the league shot.

 

[Amf Facilities]

Your tech will more than likely have a seizure.
One other thing, with a pad machine, the "old" pattern will take a while to bleed out of the wick and buffer roller. Probably at least one full conditioing cycle for the entire centre. It really is a pain in the **s to do it with a wick machine without disrupting the league shot.

Correct
The same can be said for wickless technology machines
Buffer brushes hold patterns
somewhere in the old TBA lane conditioning policy it stated that the brush
need to be run dry for 8 lanes prior to laying a new pattern
i seriouslly recomend against this as it will increase the wear on the
buffer brush. Kegel recomend not doing this.
It can take up to 60 lanes to remove a heavy sport pattern
this applies for almost ALL Lane machines.
Pba patterns can be duplicated on most lane machines but it is time consuming
I Think Sale still has a Pheonix Pad machine

 

[Brenton_Davy]

Correct
The same can be said for wickless technology machines
Buffer brushes hold patterns
somewhere in the old TBA lane conditioning policy it stated that the brush
need to be run dry for 8 lanes prior to laying a new pattern
i seriouslly recomend against this as it will increase the wear on the
buffer brush. Kegel recomend not doing this.
It can take up to 60 lanes to remove a heavy sport pattern
this applies for almost ALL Lane machines.
Pba patterns can be duplicated on most lane machines but it is time consuming
I Think Sale still has a Pheonix Pad machine

There you go, you learn something new every day, I didn't think it was as much of an issue with "Sanction" technology. That might explain why the scoring is as high as it is in Sport and "PBA Experience" leagues/tournies in centres that have Kegels etc.

Thanks Greg.

 

[Phluff]

If sale has a phoenix machine then they should be able to put something decent down for you. After all, it's pretty much the same machine as the new Kegal Crossfire, and that's what a number of centres are using these days! Your best bet would be to see if they could lay it for you over the Christmas league break as then it wont interfere with the house shot.

While the buffer is a common item for all oiling machines, and it will retain memory, it doesn't take as long to "clear" the buffer as it does to "clear" pads / wicks.
In all reality, unless you are using a pad/wicking machine or a Kustodian with 8mth old smoothing pads, 4-6 lanes is ample burning before a pattern change. Any retained memory at that point would be next to nothing. It would matter even less when changing to a heavier pattern such as a sports or PBA pattern. The memory factor would only really be an issue for the next time you ran your house shot as the first half of the house would have differing patterns.

 

[tonx]

Luke nailed it.

The A22's and decent kegels that are kept up to date are going to lay patterns pretty well. The A22 is the best machine i've ever seen to be able to change patterns on a whim. Run a double burn and the conditioner placement is going to be good.

The reason for the 'higher' scores (than one would suspect) in the PBA experience leagues have little to do with the lanes memory. If a centre is warm enough, the conditioner moves around very quickly and the centres "house shot" comes through. This combined with some head oil that the PBA patterns offer, allows a good bowler to roll the ball to maximise carry, as long as they are playing the correct breakpoints. Get a bowler that knows what they are doing some decent head and mid oil, and a little friction at the end, and they will score. Period.

The Epping Sports Singles league right now on a Wednesday night gives a good indication on what you can do with the right match up, and what can happen if you are off your game even minimally. It is more about playing the right area on the lanes, with the right ball surface and layout than it is on a house shot, where its about hurling the ball to friction. If a bowler knows what they are doing, they can also open the shot up a little for themselves over the course of the 4 games offered. In saying all that, there are only 2 bowlers over the card in our league this year, because the 200 average league bowler is put into an unfamiliar environment to their normal shots. The only 2 guys over the card are tournament bowlers that practise 2-3 nights a week, and regularly put up decent tournament performances both statewide and nationally.

In the Ebonite Sport bowling tournaments, the very same patterns play a little lower scoring. This is due to bowlers breaking down the pattern differently, changing the shot dramatically from pair to pair. If these patterns are broken down differently, they start to play as one would expect them to, dramatically lowering scores to grind outs and pure shotmaking.

The lanes are prepped no differently to the Epping Sports singles, using the same machines, the same patterns, and the same burns. The guys that have bowled them so far can attest to their challenge.

Jason- Your best bet to experience the PBA patterns would more than likely be a trip to Narre Warren. Take a group of mates down as well, pre-book the lanes, and enjoy the challenge these patterns offer. If Chris Mesagno runs another Coaching day on the patterns, I strongly suggest getting involved. It is a massive eye opener as to how difficult lanes can be (have fun on the TOC and the USOPEN patterns )

Putting all that aside, there WILL be another sports event ran early next year. I've been in contact with a few new potential sponsors to improve the events next year, and we are looking for both country centre bowlers, as well as junior and youth bowlers to get involved in these fun and low cost but challenging tournament circuit.

Hope to see you there, and all the best!