junior nationals

[craig]

i have one question in regards to the junior nationals currently on at mt gravatt.

who is accountable for the poor conditions?

i know when i was at burleigh for both nats back in 98, i had don atkinson checking the lanes, i had control of the pattern, as long as it fell into the regulations.

i have been up there twice this week and all i have seen is players humilliated, i like to see a challenge, but this is beyond a joke.

could the person responsible, please tell me the reasons to why this has happened?

 

[Slim_Mundi]

just wondering how they were humiliated and if u could enlighten the rest of us on the condition ?

 

[Graham]

I had a bowl on the condition the other day and in my opinion they weren't much different to the Koolfoam condition.

Apparently the lanes had just been done and the ball was turning VERY early whilst trying to shoot down the boards. I was bowling with a couple of juniors from SEQ and a shot was found deep inside but that went very quickly. Lanes were tough-definately not the outside 10 board bumper bowling normally found at Mt Gravatt but the condition I bowled on that day wasn't fantastic.

The condition may have changed since then (this was last Thursday I think).

 

[Jez]

Sounds to me the condition is exactly like they wre at Koolfoam and they were pretty tough and it shoud not be laid at the nationals.
The shot at koolfoam was deep inside but keeping in tight alot of the adults struggled on this so it is no wonder the juniors are finding it tough
i dont understand why they would put that condition down you have juniors travelling from all over the country and waiting all year to bowl in the championships it is the best time of the year for all of them and they are having no fun with the lane condition i am not saying make it a block just put something down that they can score on.

 

[Brenton Davy]

Surely this must tell the people at Mt gravatt that there is something seriously wrong with the oiling machine in that centre. It is fine when they set up the "house shot" ie no oil at all 10 to the gutter or something similar, but when they attempt to go gutter to gutter, it screws up like no ones business

The head tech there during Koolfoam claimed it was a house characteristic when gutter to gutter was applied for the outside to be OB. I have no problem with that, just keep a reasonable amount of oil on the inside so the deep tight shot can be played and it doesn't just become a chuckfest.

I was told I didn't know what I was talking about at Koolfoam when I put this forward and was told it was the house cahracteristic and they could do nothing about it.

Sorry, I don't accept that.

 

[GeorgeF]

Brenton I'm with you on this one. The problem I believe is with the wash cycle on the machine, in particular the outside tanks. They are not cleaning properly resulting in the outside tanks (1 board to 7) being washed out. Yes bowling on a condition where the outside is OB is relatively tough for most but when you only put 30ft in the middle or so it becomes a hurling fest.

If Mt Gravatt want to continue to use that particular machine I recommend the oil in the middle goes down around 38ft. Something decent has to be put down in the middle, what we bowled on at the koolfoam was not bowler friendly.

I would even go one step further to offer AMF Mt Gravatt a fair and challenging pattern where the bowlers don't have to up their speed. I have 2 good patterns for the Silver Bullet. If anyone from AMF wants these patterns just email me and I'll send them to you. I don't want to see our youth bowlers start bowling at 28km/h, because when they go overseas .......... well you know what I mean.

I hope the pattern changes, for the bowlers sake.

 

[Slim_Mundi]

hey umm seriously guys in all fairness maybe there is something wrong but surely juniors can take something away from a condition like this ? dare i say acually learn something about the essence of the game .....

just a thought boys ?

do you think the best bowler's still won ????
if so basically u have no argument

 

[patrick]

hey all.
tell me 2 but out if u want as i probably know nothing compared 2 george n brenton.

i must say i have mixed feelings about national's conditions. the condition was definitely not the best i've bowled on, but at the same time, it wasnt the worst i've bowled on either.
during the championships, the biggest thing i noticed about it was that there was no consistancy anywhere on the lane! i can and was bowling inside 10 to swinging across the lane and even after 27? games, i was still struggling! but it wasnt just me. honestly, wot does it tell u when almost all of the best junior bowlers in australia (being typically shield bowlers) r defeated by a centre. does it mean we werent good enough 4 the condition or were there tech difficulties or wot?
as for shield and the masters. the condition was, expectably better than during the champs part. and if the rumours are true, congrats must go out 2 the person responsible (i wont mention any names).

i know every1 has their own opinion but i thought, seeing as it doesnt look like any bowlers that bowled on it commented i would put in my 2 cents. (not on their behalf tho).

i would like 2 hear any feedback on the subject.

i personally felt a little humiliated that, in front of the best juniors in aus, i couldnt or rather didnt perform 2 my best in the champs after bowling quite well last year.
as for the best bowlers winning, how does every1 feel? were kara and i the best bowlers?

thanx and bye =)

 

[kagg69]

Hi Pat,
Yes you and Kara were the best on the day and that's all that matters, as in every tournament. The rumour was that the oiling machine was actually not working the second week of the Nationals and the lanes were being washed by hand, when the machine was fixed the officials decided not to use it because they thought it was fairer if everyone bowled under the same conditions. I personally didn't agree and it wasn't until some people really complained that the conditions changed. I don't know how true these rumours are but the conditions did improve dramatically over the days of Shield and Masters.
See you later
Sandi

 

[patrick]

cheers kagg =)
the only reason i asked is that i had heard a lot of crap about me (yeh more than normal) flueking the win and now there r some people that r yelling and screaming 4 the format 2 b changed.. lol!

but anyway. i just thought i'd ask and c wot people relly thought.
cheers n bye

 

[Jez]

Congrates Pat on the win but i have to say that the format is hard and i dont really agree with it. And i dont think many ppl do. You can be averaging 220 and be knocked out after 2-3 rounds that is not right.

 

[Kelsa]

Jez

I am really sorry but I dont agree with you as to the masters format being changed. If you average 220 and get knocked out in the 2nd or 3rd rounds well then that is just tough luck so to speak. Well really it is unlucky. Congrats to Kara and Pat, they both bowled well and deserved their wins. I am not a junior as of the end of this year so it doesnt affect me if they change the masters format. What kind of format do u suggest they change it to??

As for the condition at Mt Gravatt during the nationals I was quite disappointed. During shield and masters it was a lot better but during my squads from the 6th July to the 10th July they were shocking. Terribly incosistent and the whole bit. It was so hard to keep a line that lasted and I felt sorry for the younger kids that dont have lane reading experience. This is just my personal opinion but it was quite disappointing.

I to would like to know what other bowlers thought of the condition.

Kel

 

[scotti2hotti]

Well kel here is a little sugestion . and im sure all they geys that have bowled overseas will agree with me on this . why does australia have to be different from the rest of the world why cant we go in line with FIQ the format is qalifing is off the 16 highest all events then matchplay and you do get the best bowler winning . Nothing against the winners this year the bowled well i was in the boat of averaging 216 for the 15 games and didnt go close and i did average the highest in the feild but im not saying i should have won because that is the format we have to just shut up and bowl the reason why it is still this way is because it has allways been done this way and they are to scared of changing things ............?

scotti2hotti

 

[Andrew S.]

Scott
I think that the main reason formats have not changed over the years is that organisers have not had the input from bowlers that they are getting now. We are seeing ideas and thoughts come together from all over the world thanks to the internet.

I am going to make a very bold prediction that this forum will become extremely powerful with regard to Australian Bowling. We are starting to see this trend overseas right now (to quote one example the Audio Asylum site in USA.)

As more and more people become aware of the power of forums so the ideas will flow. Change will occur, and things will happen faster than we could have imagined.

This isn't pie in the sky, it's happening now. So keep the posts coming and tell people that they can have a voice and that they can influence others. TBA, AMF, TQI, Goldpin and lots of independants plus of course all the equipment suppliers read these posts, and if something is not well received they soon get to hear about it.
If you think something should be changed or could be improved tell the world via this forum. And no, Grahame didn't pay me to post this!
Andrew Shinnie.

 

[Hedley]

Excellent post, Andrew, and one that will held reinforce the "winds of change" that are already bringing about a steady improvement in many aspects of the Sport of Tenpin Bowling in Australia.

There is an old English addage: The squeaky gate gets the oil. So, guys and gals, take note of Andrew's comments; don't just whinge to your mates, post your thoughts on this Forum AND, to make sure your message does get through to the relevant "powers that be", e-mail them a copy of the page using the facility that Graham provides as one of the many "bells and whistles" on this Forum.

 

[lilone]

Scotti!

I would definitely have to say that the FIQ masters qualifying format, as well as step-ladder final...both do tend to prove the more 'competitive' so be it bowlers. Those who can maintain peak performance through the entire competition.
The difference we did have overseas, was a rather consistent condition, and this is the change we would considerably have to look into. Not an easy, or hard condition, going from one extreme to another, but something consistent, that still provides a challenge, determining our winners.
Good luck to those competiting also in South Australia this weekend coming, I will be sure to see you there.
LaterZ!

 

[Bee...!]

hey everyone....it is jayde here and although this topic may be old it is still one to consider.... i think that there needs to be re thinking done about masters but changing the only format that is left like that in autralian junior bolwing is silly. that is the wy championships are run so deal with it. i ahev on many occasions maybe topped or second top averaged but finsihed third or fourth just the luck. if you can hack it out and have a good draw or opponents then goodluck to you but trying to cahnge it to make it better will only bebenift the person who can do the best on the day. hope this doesn't offend anyone but that is my pice.
thanks jayde xxx

 

[Andrew Frawley]

Just wanted to fill in some blanks and dispel any rumours regarding lane conditions at the Junior Nationals.

Conditions were obviously quite poor during the championship portion of the Nationals. The head tech at the centre may have thought he was on top of what was happening, but I do believe he had all the best intentions in mind when the condition was set. His guidelines were to set a pattern where oil was laid down edge to edge, min of 5 units at the end of the buff. This was done, but the machine just did not want to lay enough down in the heads, and the actual distance of oil was probably a little short.

After arriving from the US we got together and changed the pattern for the Shield and masters. Oil distance was increased, buff distance increased to 39 feet. The shot did hold up a lot better, but no machine is going to be able to give a consistent shot for 6 game of 5 person teams.

The pattern was not changed for the events as this would have been unfair for bowlers who played earlier in the championships.

As far as formats go, the Masters elimination format is an internationally recongised format where the largest membership organisations, like the ABC, WIBC, Japan Tenpin, British and ourselves have an event that rewards bowlers who can beat their opponents in a real head to head match, right here right now type pressure.

I believe changing the format to 3 games has made it easier for the 'better' bowler to overcome say the less experienced. For some reason in this country we still worry about averages bowled in a double elimination event. Do you think the tennis players get pissed of every week when the draw comes out?
Just get out there and win your match and your still alive. Double elimination makes every match something to watch, especially when the underdog to having a go at a top player.

What about the PBA, their new format is similar to a masters event except it is best of 5 one game matches, first to 3 is the winner, lose and your out...no losers bracket...just like tennis.

The Australian Masters title is a very special one, the winners never do it easy, and the ones that do have a special talent that some more renowned bowlers never quite get. The ability to knock off any opponent regardless of 'who' they are.

Andrew

 

[craig]

well done in confirming the truth andrew, although a few around the forum have disagreed, i thought the actions taken on in regards to the condition, were justified.

it is also great to see high ranking TBA officials come out and tell it how it is, times are definately changing for the better.

people talk about why tournament bowling is declining, i could nearly guarantee that if that move hadn't have been made, the junior nationals as we know it might have ran one of its last times, parents, guardians and of course the bowlers were very disgruntled.

once again congratulations to andrew and everyone else involved in rectifying the problem

 

[*kez*]

Congrats that bowled well at nats

coz it was hard to do